I was reading in a few of the past post and noted that the Hobie Fox is not a popular boat for the 20 foot class. Why was it such a dog? And what would it do to make on competitive?

My opinion; NOT a dog. Sailplan seemed to never get nailed down and folks didn't take the time to figure out how to sail the new hull shape. I think that people who are now used to Caps, Blades and Infusions might be surprised if they tried out a Fox today. It was a little ahead of it's time and got drowned by the Nacra 20 in the US.

I thought the boat sailed quite well. The mast issues probably hurt it as nobody was sure if it was going to be a comp tip or a straight mast. They finally got it figured out with regards to the comp tip but... the big problem in my mind was that the I20 was already established and does not follow the EU F20 rule (larger sail area). When the Fox got here it had the EU F20 sail plan and was therefore slower than the I20. IMO they should have adjusted to fit the market. I think had that happened we might have a US F20 class now (I wish we did).

In addition to the technical sorting out of the boat for the US region...

The Fox suffered a class problem as well. About that time... Hobie Alter set forth a widely published opinion about what the Hobie Class racing program should be in the furure. He sort of foretold the future. He argued that the racing class should focus on the Hobie 16 with no spinaker and the Hobie Tiger. The 20's, 18's, 17's in their racing classes would eventually migrate to one of the two featured Hobie classes. The Fox and FX1 were not really considered as part of the program for the future. With out the appeal of a strong class forming behind the Fox.... the boats were resold back to the EU.

Finally, the fate of any 20 foot spin class must deal with the smaller number of teams that want to sail the boat.
Figure about MAX 10 Tornado Teams in the USA and Canada.
20 Nacra teams that compete at Nationals.
20 more nacra Teams that race but don't travel much ... = 50 teams! It is not clear to me that another boat in a formula class would increase the numbers of sailors on 20 foot spin boats. The competition from the F18 class for interest is pretty intense.

The 20's remain popular for distance racers... and regions with light winds... (Chesapeake Bay for example) (nothing like a tall mast in light breeze). The F18's have NO foothold on the bay as a racing class.

Wasn't so much the boat being a dog, but not having enough sail power to match what was coming out form NACRA factory. So that said, do you think the Fox would be a competitive boat if it matched the I20 in sail area for more power, and carbon stick for less weight?

There was an effort here in SoCal to do just that - it was affectionately called the "Super Fox." Most seem to agree it was just getting up to pace when the owner got an offer he couldn't refuse - the boat left the US.

So how's the Hobie Fox compare to the Hobie Miracle and which is more desirable? Thanks.<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

The "Miracle" aka, Hobie 20 is a sloop rigged boat and was essentially a competitor to the Nacra 6.0. Not designed for a spinnaker but handles one quite well. I like the boat but purly boat against boat I'd rather have a Fox. More modern boat, square head main, self tacker jib, better foils, no comp tip and on and on and on.

I don't know if H-EU is still making the Fox, but H20's were "killed" last year or year before, I don't remember. The 20 was a US only boat essentially and a copy of the Hurricane 5.9. The Hurricane is/was a popular boat in England and was designed by Reg White. The only real difference was that it had centerboards instead of daggers.... and was not made by Hobie.

Very insightful comments, Mark! That explains much of what I've been seeing in the area.

I am currently trying to get back into cat sailing on the Chesapeake Bay. And while I think of myself as a Hobie guy, in terms of competitive small cat sailing, the best option seems to be Nacra 20s and A-Cats with the WRCRA.

What exactly are you looking to do? I think all of the Hobie Foxes went back to the EU used market. West River is your best option if you want a higher tech boat. The classic hobie 16, 17 and 18 are still going strong in the mid Atlantic in Hobie Div 11.

The best place might be to look at what regattas are available. You can bring anything to an open class event and that might be enough sailing for you.
go here for a pdf.

http://www.sailregattas.com/crac/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=209

Va Beach has a racing program as well... www.sailcrac.com and look on the left for the links. PRSA near the airport has local Hobie 16 sailing and an Isotope or two.

The Hobie events are north of Baltimore and at Rock Hall on the eastern shore and in Rehboth DE.

I can fill in any details on events. Stop by West River the last weekend of April... they have free beer according to MikeF....Also an A class, N20, 505 and Contender regatta. A week later trek up to Gunpowder, camp and try their free beer... It's a Hobie regatta with an Open class as well.... The F16's are supposed to be out in force at gunpowder.

If you want a Hobie spin boat, the Tiger should be available at a good price and you would be pretty evenly matched with the F16's in the local open class and you could always trek to New England and the Carolinas and Syracuse for F18 events.

Thanks for the additional details, Mark. Will definitely have to check out Hobie division 11. I did go out to Rehoboth Bay Sailing Association last summer and went out on one of their Hobie 16s.

What exactly am I looking to do? I'm looking to get back into catamaran sailing, after a 10 year break. (I sailed cats as a teen, and hiking skiffs in college.) So right now, the goal is to get out on the water and do some sailing on any beach cat where crew is needed.

Funny enough, Mike F kindly put me in touch with the PRO so I can volunteer with the RC at the the Spring Regatta. So I'll be out there for a start. Hopefully I can meet a few of you and connect with some cat owners that may be looking for crew in the coming weeks and months.

Haven't investigated Gunpowder yet. But if it involves camping, I may be able to talk the family into it.

The background to all this is that I will be moving to Senegal, in West Africa, this summer. We'll be right on the Atlantic coast, with nice beaches, good wind, and I've already identified a beach cat club there. They have mostly Hobie 16, which will be OK for a start. The likely scenario is that I will sail a good bit, including in regattas, while we are in Senegal. This will hopefully build a decent skill base. Once we get back to Washington, I'll be looking to get my own boat, and boost my skill level with more serious racing. I'll have to see at that point whether classic Hobie or high-tech is a better fit. Right now, I'm open to any proposition that will get me back out on the water.

As for the Hobie Tiger, I would consider picking one up at the right price and sticking it in the container to Senegal. With the Wildcat on the horizon, I assume we'll be seeing a few more Tigers for sale in the coming year.

Ahh..

You really need to bring the family camping at gunpowder. It is a great park with lots of stuff for kids to do and the catamarans are the only ones allowed to camp. New bathhouse gives you hot showers and really hits the WAF. I am sure Lynn could use your help on the RC if you are willing. Who knows, somebodies crew could bail as well. Bring your gear.
The 16 or 18 fleet might be just what you are looking for at this moment in time. Pull up the NOR and give Lynn Flanigan a call.

Schedule for Hobie
http://www.div11.hobieclass.com/default.asp?Page=7350

Thanks for all the tips, Mark. Will surely run into you in person one event or another.

Everybody: Apologies for getting this Hobie Fox thread somewhat off topic.

FYI, Mark et al.: I started a separate thread about Chesapeake Bay Cat Sailing Options in the Open Forum.