Ya got me ; i keep forgetting that i lost both legs in a hang gliding crash.

How about if i just say that it is Safer to have the ability
to reef your sails ; if a guy actually does need it from time
to time ?

Bille

I use new harken furlers (top and bottom) with the highload turlon bearings. - nothing to fix, not crap equipment

I sail solo 80% of the time so having the luxury of holding the tiller and trying to furl a jib on the fly in 30knots is not just a case of "fix it"

I have sailed in over 40. not my idea of fun. Even over 20 is more than i prefer (but get caught in 25's several times a year).

I think knowing how to depower and get back to the beach safe is much more "fun" than being out in heavy air, getting a face full of water and increasing my risk of breaking a boat or person.

I have jumped on many other boats in high wind, but i find that less and less appealing as i get older.

Have you seen this video before?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtWoxDXUmko
the title says they are sailing in 60 knts., but it looks about like a strong day at Dougs beach in the Gorge. I used a 3.5meter sail there once and it was about right.

Well, you can always heave-to!

A sailing manouevre which I didn't hear mentioning so far in this discussion. Very normal in heavy weather yachtsailing.

Try next time in 25+ kts after your first run outside, to jibe. Because at that time your are anyway full of adrenaline and all your muscles are tensioned and you are at the top of your nerves. So a jibe in heavy wind seems not too much to add to all your misery at that moment. Take your time when running the cat full ahead of the wind. Take care of the boom and try to slow down the travellercar. Turn into the wind.

And then...........do nothing. Leave the jib on the wrong side and let the main completely free open, let the tiller go. You will be amazed with the repose and the silentness of that situation. You are in heavy wind but everything is quiet; cat is moving slowly windwards. All is in control. Sails are not slapping. You can stand up, walk over your tramp, do a little dance, sew the jib if you want. And rest!

Then start thinking of how to spill a little more wind when sailing again. On your way back from the run; if you are really out of control, let the jib simply on the wrong side. By this little trick you can manage another 10 kts extra.

IF I wanted to sail in heavy air I would heave-to if/as needed, but since i prefer not to sail in heavy air.... and IF i sailed in heavy air, i wouldn't have a jib out

Try that in a Hobie 16 in anything over 20 kts and let me know how it works for you. Or a boat with a self-tacking jib (F18) that can't be weather sheeted.

Yeah, it works great for monohulls that don't have fully-battened sails. Catamarans, not so much.

I've sailed on H16's, but never done this particular heaving to. Nor with a self tacking jib (ofcourse).

Works fine for my cat and for that reason on any Prindle. Guess that same implies for Nacra's.

Curious though if it works for other members on their cats. I always thought this would work for anybody.

Northsea, Heaving to didn't quite work on my Nacra 5.2 out of the box. It would fall off, pick up speed, head up, tack and fall off, repeatedly.

I added a shock-cord with two plastic hooks along the back beam (tramp lacing actually). I use the hook to stabilize the rudders gently against the transoms. Gives me time to eat, drink and think (if applicable ;-)
My impression is that the boat sort of slowly [moves] sideways doing this "crabbing".

Dennis, heaving to is by nature a balanced situation for your cat. So yes, sometimes you have to play a little with the main and/or the rudders (and fix them) to arrive to that balance.

Perhaps I'm very lucky to have made a cat which is very balanced by itself.

By the way the fully battening of a catsail is in my opinion not an issue in heaving-to.

Glad to hear that. I always had trouble getting my 5.2 to heave to but I just thought it was me not getting things balanced. It worked well on my old Apollo 16 (monohull dingy).

OK -- then you need to get the pressure off your sails.

Bring her into Irons ; then toss the sea-anchor, and lift
your rudders so she doesn't turn while going backwards.

You will have a much easier time of it now.

For you being caught in a 25 , "several times a year" as you
say, ; i would Drop the Main completely, and sail your joy
back to safe harbor , with just the jib.

Have you ever sailed with just your jib ? You should learn
how easy it is in sub-20 some day ; it's quite pleasant !!
You'll need a bit of energy ; or Ya get bored rather Easy .

The boat will be unbalanced, and need Lots of rudder ; but
since there are Way fewer blocks on the jib sheet, she reacts
a LOT faster when Ya go to depower,
(faster than sheeting out the Main) !!

I'm betting that you will NOT be in a great hurry to return
to shore ; once Ya find out just How easy it is to sail with
just your jib ? !!

I wouldn't sail Mohave , without a Good plan to deal with the
15 to 30-mph winds that are normal on that lake. We get a nice 15
to start ; then it's ON. It will fluctuate like that,as many
as 3 to 5 times a day.


Bille

BTW
This is all stuff i taught on 21 ft columbia sailboats , at
the Harry Lundeberg school of seamanship, in Piney point Md ,in the early 70's.

Or just don't go out in heavy air


So your suggesting when a storm pops up i try and drop and secure my main on my catamaran while on the fly? I don't think that is the answer for me. I can sail my cat in 25 - 30 without doing that.


Yes



Here in the Central Fl / Gulf of Mexico we get all ranges of weather. It's typical for the summer days to start out light, build all day and then have late afternoon thunderstorms (although this year has been atypical) - we have plans/options.

You seem to be trying very hard to convince me that sailing in heavy air is the most fun and I should be doing it. I am spoiled and get to sail year round, 3 days a week .... I have learned what i find fun and what i don't.... and sailing in heavy air / rough seas is not fun to me....

YMMV

I agree that heavy air sailing isn't in my definition of "fun" (Karl's comments regarding damage, fatigue, etc), and I am quite spoiled that I can pretty much pick any weekend to sail here so if the forecast is anything less than ideal I can forego the day's sailing plan.

BUT, heavy air sailing is something to be familiar with, as I I'm certain most folks have been caught out on the water when things didn't turn out as planned (too long sailing before weather moves in, pop-up storms, etc).

Having options (like reefing, jib-only sailing, etc) and knowing how/when to use them greatly increases a sailor's overall safety.

Perhaps that could be considered "enjoying" since I'd be somewhat competent in those "less than ideal" conditions, and can set the boat up to be comfortable/seakindly?

Racing is not usually "survival sailing", but getting back to the beach can be.

Having a fast boat also allows you to sail around/outrun certain conditions (like pop-up storm) which can be seen as increasing safety, too.

Well, not having "fun", feeling too spoiled for heavy weather, exaggerating the risks, raising the old age. I don't buy it guys.

It all has to do with simply not feeling secure (enough) in the conditions where reefing should be practical.

This is exactly the reason why I presented in this thread a learning scenario with a heavy weather jibe ending in a heave to condition.
Do it and you will feel more secure because you learned to do the impossible followed by the rewarding no-fear situation of the heave-to.

I clicked on this thread, because I'm a 'reefer'- it's not what you think.

It's this kind of reef- in my family room



Now, back to 'sail reefing'

Nice tank!

I've been out in nuclear stuff (30+ with huge ocean waves), and couldn't get my H16 to tack without wanting to go over backwards. So, I prefer to gybe in those conditions. We lie on the tramp with our heads all the way down, and steer through it as slowly as possible. I'm sometimes amazed that the rig is still vertical after that...

Mike

It all has to do with simply not feeling secure (enough) in the conditions where reefing should be practical.

Certainly. And having the boat fitted with "options" (reefing, storm sail, etc) is part of that security.

Still not sure on the "fun" part... Maybe telling the story of how you got through the nuclear conditions is "fun".

It also could be that "heavy air" (over 30 kts) in this area is accompanied by things I don't consider particularly "fun":
- hail
- cold temperatures
- mega-lightning. I think Florida kills more people with lightning than anywhere else?

That last one is key for me personally. When it starts to feel like you're at a Rave party because of all the flashing, and you're sitting next to a 10 meter aluminum stick in the middle of a large body of water, it's hard to feel the "fun".

I think that if it were blowing a nice steady 35 knots in one direction we could all adapt and have a fun fast sail. It's the lulls and gusts along with changing direction that makes most heavy air sailing no fun around here.

That a good video: The sharper the blast, the quicker it'll pass.
I've seen boats destroyed tied down on the beach with bare poles in those conditions. There is no way I would have survived a micro-burst like that out on the water.

Sailing jib only on the i20 or f18 wasn't much fun for me.

I've done jib only on the Viper as well. Lost one of the diamond wires and dropped the main to save the mast. Doesn't go to weather very well.