Hi Mark hi Jake
just wanted to take a few minutes to politely point out contradictory concepts of P rating per your own examples provided -

lets start with the most current provided ,-the horse example --
Handicaping for horses is to applied betting odds only --horses are not given time because they run slowly ,-or have an H or P brand ,--
are they? .
this would only promote poorly trained inferior horses .

Many catsailors would be willing to scrap the boat brand handicap as a result of P rating and replace it with a betting handicap for all regattas in 05 -- {joking}

and instead race all in similar length beam weight sail area classifications .

To answer Mark,s previous last post directly ,-there are numerous examples beyond the T provided earlier of unfair rating numbers as is true of all current rating systems ,-
All rating systems are inherantly unfair in some form due to the need to generalize and simplify rating systems .-One can scroll through the P rating and find numerous examples of older cat designs in particular with similar Length beam weight and sail areas rated much slower in P rating only due to the fact that they are not equiped with new sails or raced competitively -and crews are not trained to sail them near there true potential.} New rating numbers are inconsistant and often in conflict with design measurement rating also , again none are fair in all aspects.

You both agree that quote --
"Mark,
Totally agree with you there...spin and non-spin boats are difficult to handicap together because of they are so dissimilar in the performance range. Whenever possible they should (and usually are) scored separately...at least around here" --

So most concer that boats racing need to be grouped and started in similar groups based on speed potential.--Mark previously provided the example of larger boat rating systems using a base model to achieve a model rating number and modifying a boats rating from that base model ,-this idealy in each length based classification for starts --
It would seem the ideal model in cats would be based on the accepted Formula class in each Length category ,-then a non spin classification added in each Length category.
This best achieves the stated goal by both Mark and Jake of grouping boats in similar performing classes for racing .
The F-18 class was concieved by a group of sailors using the design measurement ISAF rating system and forming the ideal specifications for a base model 18 ft length catamaran .
This illustrates the compatability of having a systematic design measurement based approach to rating and the benifits of it -again which serves to promote equal general classes of boats for racing in very similar base model groups ,-as per Mark,s example now widely accepted and used .
When a rating system is needed for smaller groups only
it seems a combination rating system based in design measurement with a time to distance yardstick factor added would be more benificial to promote sport in the true sence and intent of sport.

The ideal or best type of racing is as pirate tx stated to begin the thread --quote -"I think a fair race could really only be done 1 design. Because all the boats perform different under different conditions & Different Level's of sailors
set the #'s by there racing results. Most of the regatta's
I go to its 8-20 boats all different makes and models.
Maybe 1 day the the sport will make a come back and
there will be enough boats at a regatta's that there can be 1 design fleets racing one another. Until then its a #'s game thats really not a fair playing field. But its what we got!"--end quote

Instead of stating its flawed and all we got ,-racing cat sailors should be stating lets improve the sport for all and race when possible in larger groups of similar designs,--not based on brand name ,-but instead with similar length beam weight and sail area base models -in spin and non spin classes , and lets adopt a means of rating boats that promotes and encourages this to occur over time ,-with room for new development and inclusive of all cat and or multihull types .

Outline recommendations for a combination rating system would use ISAF and Texel base rating formulas {both being very similar} refined with a wind speed modification factor added at trapping speed ,this would allow design factors of beam -non board types, aspect ratio of sail area inc spin , and other measurement factors to improve the theoretic comparative speed potential of similar cat design , and also the needed chang from the general 100 base scale used in ISAF to the time to distance traveled scale used in P rating for real comparative annalysis.

Again ,the goal should be to promote the true intent and ideals of sport by racing very similar boats based on basic design measurement specifications and there by over time assisting the promotion of and helping creat larger classes and class groups of racing catamarans.
all the best
Carl