Actually this is a very, very tired old argument that I have personally witnessed for over fifty years, (and it has been going on far longer than that). It is an argument that has never been resolved in the past, won't be resolved now, and will still be argued into the distant future without any valid resolution. It all comes down to "personal" points of view, and no matter how "good" any individual promotes their "side of the coin" there will never be any concensis reached, (I think you knew this all the time Mary, and just posted this to "stir the pot" a little more??, well done you cunning woman you)