Sorry Wout, I guess my point was too subtle. Personally, I don't feel sorry so much for Joe Bubba either, but I can see the politicians are gonna jump on that one with BOTH feet.

My suggestion re: Mr. Bubba illustrates the reality in the US that we have to undergo CULTURAL change in order for any conservation-minded programs to succeed. Good luck...

I think you're hung up on that 'image' thing, and I'm trying to illustrate to you that it's not just that.

Sure, in some cases it is, but that would be more likely seen in the middle-class than with the very poor, eg Mr. Middlebubba with the big triple-outboard powerboat and the Hummer to pull it, house way larger than he needs, his kids (too many) have JetSkis to play with. Middlebubba's in debt up to his eyeballs (eg the TV commercial, for those who have seen it.) Now, that's image.

The poor, on the other hand, don't have any concept of forward thinking. They only see week-to-week: what can I afford with my paycheck THIS week? There ARE state programs out there, but they don't seem to do any good. It's behavior they learned from their upbringing, and what they've seen in people around them, etc. Again, gotta go after it with 'cultural change.'

If the US wasn't half-assed socialist, we could see capitalism at work. These people would be cut off at the knees (oooh, the Democrats won't have THAT) and they'd learn the lesson a lot more quickly. Instead, they're 'sort-of' subsidized (food stamps, Medicaid, housing and school vouchers, disability-now THERE'S a racket, disability) and thus there's no incentive to improve. What little money they do make can be spent on dumb things like rental furniture, and they don't learn about smart money handling.

I'm broadening the subject here but then I think everything's pretty interconnected.

and for PTP:
NO I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT. US Politics is the very BEST arena demonstrating how Americans DON'T think. In a REAL democracy, we'd have more than two parties, and this partisan bantering wouldn't even exist. But then, it's just too easy for us to say, "yeah Rush (or whoever), you're right!" instead of just watching the news and deciding for ourselves. In a REAL democracy, talk radio and the like would be superfluous. Sorry, I'm changing the subject...