Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Nacra A3? #100385
03/11/07 02:09 AM
03/11/07 02:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Kuwait
Zee Offline OP
journeyman
Zee  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Kuwait
Hey .. Im not sure if you guys remember me or not coz I havent been on for ages. I was actually ordering an A2 or at least in the middle of it before I left due to personal reasons (mostly war and car crashes) and I wasnt able to go through with the order.

Well to get to the point Im still set on getting an A-class cat but it seems that theres an A3 now? though it doesnt seem to be that different from an A2 .. but I also heard about the australian "tool" ? any other recommendations?

Some basic info:
Id mostly be sailing solo
My weight is 70kg (170cm tall)
The wind isnt very strong over here so Im going to need something that can handle light winds
Waves here arent too high
Price isnt really that big of an issue

and well thats it i guess.

Thanx <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Zawy03@gmail.com Hobie 16 (Soon to be Nacra A2) 100449
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Zee] #100386
03/11/07 02:15 AM
03/11/07 02:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
ahhaha I remember you, are you still playing console games? I upgraded to a xbox360.

Sorry for the thread jack, good luck on your purchase.

Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Robi] #100387
03/11/07 02:38 AM
03/11/07 02:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 201
Adelaide South Australia
R
ratherbsailing Offline
enthusiast
ratherbsailing  Offline
enthusiast
R

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 201
Adelaide South Australia
Check out www.ashbysails.com for flyer 2 i think it's better than the nacra same price, all info there any further info contact glen. also check out www.users.bigpond.com/aiadca for second hand boats and info.

Last edited by hobie1463; 03/11/07 02:40 AM.
Re: Nacra A3? [Re: ratherbsailing] #100388
03/11/07 02:56 AM
03/11/07 02:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Kuwait
Zee Offline OP
journeyman
Zee  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Kuwait
Robi: hehe ya I still play video games (I have the xbox 360 too) my fav game is gears of war.

Hobie: thanx ill check it out


Zawy03@gmail.com Hobie 16 (Soon to be Nacra A2) 100449
Re: Nacra A3 [Re: Zee] #100389
03/11/07 07:10 AM
03/11/07 07:10 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Sarah:

How have you been? Well I have graduated and off to new job in Fla. Going to try to get this built in 2008. It is a DK-17. Built for heavier guys like me. 228 now but will get down to solid 210 now that I am out of school. Please change my email tds062050 at hotmail.com. Lets stay in touch.

Doug

Attached Files
101124-Rotated_8.jpg (201 downloads)
Re: Nacra A3 [Re: ] #100390
03/11/07 08:42 AM
03/11/07 08:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 221
Netherlands
Hans_Ned_111 Offline
enthusiast
Hans_Ned_111  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 221
Netherlands
Zee,

If you want information about THE TOOL than please look at www.catamaranparts.nl and there is some information about the boat. If you want more info on the boat please mail us or phone and we are able to help you further on this.
The A3 is indead there and there are some changes done on the hull but i do not know on the moment if this brought some better performance. I know that Glenn is going fast on the Flyer MK2 but the point is that this guy is going fast on every type of boat so it is difficult to say if the boat is better or just the sailor.

Regards,
Hans

Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Zee] #100391
03/11/07 10:41 AM
03/11/07 10:41 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Quote
Hey .. Im not sure if you guys remember me or not coz I havent been on for ages. I was actually ordering an A2 or at least in the middle of it before I left due to personal reasons (mostly war and car crashes) and I wasnt able to go through with the order.

Well to get to the point Im still set on getting an A-class cat but it seems that theres an A3 now? though it doesnt seem to be that different from an A2 .. but I also heard about the australian "tool" ? any other recommendations?

Some basic info:
Id mostly be sailing solo
My weight is 70kg (170cm tall)
The wind isnt very strong over here so Im going to need something that can handle light winds
Waves here arent too high
Price isnt really that big of an issue

and well thats it i guess.

Thanx <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


If I remember correctly, the A3 has the main (front) beam and the daggerboards moved back about 150mm from were they were on the A2.

Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Zee] #100392
03/11/07 06:18 PM
03/11/07 06:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 78
rictorn Offline
journeyman
rictorn  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 78
hi have you seen the old nacra 18 square, its 11 foot wide so ideal for somone light and extreamly fast,
do you racing? what boats are you racing against?

the a class cats are great, my only problem with them is that they are slower than the f18 and tornado's so if you wanted to race them you may want somthing quicker

but i am sure you'll have fun with whatever you get

Re: Nacra A3? [Re: rictorn] #100393
03/12/07 07:12 AM
03/12/07 07:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Kuwait
Zee Offline OP
journeyman
Zee  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Kuwait
thanx guys

rictorn: I dont plan on getting one of the F18s because I'd mostly be sailing alone so I want something thats not too hard to handle or right if I need to.

So far it seems that the nacra A3 is the best choice and Im think of going for glaser sails .. any recommendations on which type of sail to order or other upgrades?

Last edited by Zee; 03/12/07 07:58 AM.

Zawy03@gmail.com Hobie 16 (Soon to be Nacra A2) 100449
Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Zee] #100394
03/12/07 07:43 AM
03/12/07 07:43 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
MauganN20  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
Quote
my only problem with them is that they are slower than the f18 and tornado's


In light air (like what Zee said she sails in), the A-class wins. It moves when no other boats can.

Re: Nacra A3? [Re: MauganN20] #100395
03/12/07 10:21 AM
03/12/07 10:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

How light is light in Zee's case.

Pretty much as soon the winds are strong enough to fill the spinnaker properly (about 4 knots ?), the A-cats take a sudden hit in comparative performance.

Sailing in winds less then that is really for the hardcore sailors anyway. I tend to like it now because it is such a test of sailing skill, nearly the water based zen equivalent. And like nearly all people it took me quite a while to get at that level were it was enjoyable. Before that if was just a total drag to be out in such light conditions.

On an A-cat the effort required to make it go in such light winds will be no different, despite the fact that it will indeed be a little faster then the others. Most sailors just don't bother and sit it out on the beach.

Hence my question again, what are the lightest winds Zee expects to sail in ?

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Wouter] #100396
03/12/07 02:36 PM
03/12/07 02:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 254
Gower, Wales, UK
sailwave Offline
enthusiast
sailwave  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 254
Gower, Wales, UK
Yep, I just sit there, phone my friends and take in the scenery and the boat just goes fast.

Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Zee] #100397
03/12/07 04:28 PM
03/12/07 04:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 78
rictorn Offline
journeyman
rictorn  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 78
thats cool the tool (crap name) looks good but like american actresses the a classes all look good but i can't tell them apart, the tool site is www.thetool.com.au

i am thinking of developing a extreame14 (crap dirivative matcho name i know) with a spinnaker they should be faster than the a class, just as a peice of market reasurch is that the sort of thing you would be interested in?

Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Zee] #100398
03/13/07 11:22 AM
03/13/07 11:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
old hand
Dan_Delave  Offline
old hand

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Zee:

We have a lot of A2s and A3s at the club. Everyone seems to like them and sail them a lot.

Sailors at my club that sail them:
Pete Melvin (designer)
Pease Glaser
Howie Hamlin
Jeremy Laundergan (designer)
Bill Westerly

There are a couple more that are planning on getting the A3s as well.

As far are sails. I am a huge fan of Jay and Pease for sails. Great spinnaker for my Formula 18. I think if you call them tell them your weight and what mast you are sailing with they make your sail according to specs they already have.

Later,
Dan

Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Dan_Delave] #100399
03/16/07 03:36 AM
03/16/07 03:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Kuwait
Zee Offline OP
journeyman
Zee  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Kuwait
thanx for the replies

Wouter: the wind speed around here ranges from about a min of 4 knots to a high of 15 knots.

I've thought about a spi and it sounds like a lot of fun but I havent really used one and no one here does so Im worried that Id be lost if I get it plus id be sailing alone and I dont want something too complicated.


Zawy03@gmail.com Hobie 16 (Soon to be Nacra A2) 100449
Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Zee] #100400
03/16/07 04:12 AM
03/16/07 04:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
old hand
Dermot  Offline
old hand

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Quote
thanx for the replies

Wouter: the wind speed around here ranges from about a min of 4 knots to a high of 15 knots.

I've thought about a spi and it sounds like a lot of fun but I havent really used one and no one here does so Im worried that Id be lost if I get it plus id be sailing alone and I dont want something too complicated.

There is no doubt that a Shadow would really work for you.
It is light, has a small easily handled spinnaker and you won't have to lower the mast after every day's sailing, which you should do with a carbon mast to avoid delamination.


Dermot
Catapult 265
Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Zee] #100401
03/16/07 04:34 AM
03/16/07 04:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Zee (or Sarah),

Quote

Wouter: the wind speed around here ranges from about a min of 4 knots to a high of 15 knots.


This sounds like pretty normal sailing conditions to me. It still dependents on what you get most of the time but if this is evenly spread out then I would certainly call it normal conditions. As such you are not really limited in the beach cat you choose as all are designed for this wind range.

The A-cat would excell in conditions ranging from 2 or 3 knots to about 6 knots. Wind with less then 2 knots speed are typically very shifty and patchy and as then all is related to sailor skill and not so much boat design. And of course a Hobie 16 floats about just as fast as an A-cat but due to handicap calculations gets more time allotted to do so. In effect in floating and "only just crawling" conditions the boats with slow handicaps get advantaged again.

An important point in winds conditions is the 5 knot threshold and it is indeed a 5 knot threshold. Pretty much the wind can only blow in two significantly different shapes. See the picture below :


[Linked Image]


One wind pattern (in the vertical sense) is called laminair flow and the other is called a turbulant flow. The transition from one to another is sudden and tota, often this transition happens when the wind is measured to be 5 knots. However this transition speed may be higher or lower depending on chance local conditions. For example if the water temperature is very cool then the transition wind speed is pushed up to about 6 to 7 knots. The other way around when the water is relatively warm.

In effect winds ranging from 0-5 knots the windspeed increases proportionally when you move away further from the water surface. In all other conditions, 5 to whatever, the windspeed is zero at the water surface and then rapidly increases when moving to about 1 to 1.5 meters above the watersurface. Then it only marginally increases when moving further away from the water surface.

This is the fundament under the claim that 5 knots of wind is an important threshold when comparing different catamaran designs with one another. This is because different general designs respond differently to this transition.

The best catamaran design for laminair winds is a lightweight platform with a tall and narrow rig conprising only a single sail (= high aspect ratio). This mainsail must be cut or trimmed relatively flat with a open leech. The latter means that the leech needs to have alot of twist.

The best catamaran design for turbulant winds platform is much less easily defined as several different concepts seem to work well here. Because the wind as a whole contains ALOT more energy, even relatively close to the water surface, sail boats with jibs and spinnakers tend to perform much better then they did in laminair winds. In some instances they even start to perform better then the optimal designs for laminair winds as described above, that is right after the transition. With increasing winds the optimal laminair design tends to performance less and less with low aspect sloop rigged performing better and better. At strong winds the best platform to have is almost the direct opposite of the optimal laminair winds boat. In effect, a modestly weighted platform with a short low aspect rig with a jib (or spinnaker).

So as you see, how often a particular condition occurs at your venue does tend to impact significantly on the best design you can use, with the 5 knot threshold being an important component.

I think a second threshold can be found at 10 knots or so, but without a clear scientific basis as with the 5 knots limit. At 10 knots and higher you'll want to sail with a rig of modest height and not too much sailarea some weight in the platform will be nice to punch through the chop and waves and if you experience such conditions often then a boat like the Shadow will be excellent. Especially since it appears to have modestly sized and a very easy to use spinnaker setup. At these winds you don't really need alot of spinnaker area to get a good thrill.


Quote

I've thought about a spi and it sounds like a lot of fun but I havent really used one and no one here does so Im worried that Id be lost if I get it plus id be sailing alone and I dont want something too complicated.



I understand fully. Please don't get a spinnaker only because I'm vocal about favouring it. You must get the boat that you feel happy and comfortable with, not something that I or somebody else would prefer.

But I will say this. The fact that a particular design doesn't have many components doesn't mean that its sailing behaviour is uncomplicated as in easy and mild mannered. Modern high performance catamarans do require the user to know a thing or two about sail trim and how to depower the rig in conditions beyond 8 knots. The A-cat is most certainly no exception. If you don't have these skills then the boat either won't go or will feel moody and overpowered.


With respect to Dermots comment :

Quote

... and you won't have to lower the mast after every day's sailing, which you should do with a carbon mast to avoid delamination.


There are tricks to keep the mast on the boat and prevent mast damage when using carbon mast or even alu wingmast that tend to have the same issues with violant oscillations whne left unattended. But yes indeed, you will spend a few minutes engaging and disengaging these tricks (systems) when putting the boat into its parking.


I hope this helps,

Wouter

Attached Files
Last edited by Wouter; 03/16/07 05:07 AM.
Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Wouter] #100402
03/16/07 05:48 AM
03/16/07 05:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 207
couldn't resist it
Codblow Offline
enthusiast
Codblow  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 207
couldn't resist it


"There are tricks to keep the mast on the boat and prevent mast damage when using carbon mast or even alu wingmast that tend to have the same issues with violant oscillations whne left unattended "


Inbonny scotland this cunning trick is called "tie the fekin thing up "

I always tightenen the rotation adjusters tight as possible and fix boom to center of rear beam , this has worked here for over a decade of my cat sailing in up to 70 mph winter gales on my A i used to tie another line to end of rotation arm and tightly to each chain plate as an extra precaution.

next step sit by fire dram in hand and forget about it !

Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Codblow] #100403
03/16/07 10:30 AM
03/16/07 10:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Kuwait
Zee Offline OP
journeyman
Zee  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Kuwait
I guess what it comes down to then is speed .. Its not a problem if the cat is a bit complicated (as long as I can right it alone)so in wind speeds of mostly 7 knots which would be faster the Nacra A3 or the Shadow? And are there any other F16s that might be better for me than the shadow?

And what about the spitfire? is it too much for one person to handle?


Zawy03@gmail.com Hobie 16 (Soon to be Nacra A2) 100449
Re: Nacra A3? [Re: Zee] #100404
03/16/07 12:06 PM
03/16/07 12:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
old hand
Dermot  Offline
old hand

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Quote
I guess what it comes down to then is speed .. Its not a problem if the cat is a bit complicated (as long as I can right it alone)so in wind speeds of mostly 7 knots which would be faster the Nacra A3 or the Shadow? And are there any other F16s that might be better for me than the shadow?

And what about the spitfire? is it too much for one person to handle?

The Nacra A3, F16 and Spitfire are all faster than the Shadow - if you can handle them. No offence meant, but I would think that you would drive the Shadow just as fast as any one of the others, because of its siplicity and your light weight. I think that you are a bit light to sail the Spitfire alone in anything over 15knots. Unless you are very experienced, you will find the others are also a handful in that windband.
Look at it this way, Unless you are a very experienced Formula 1 racing driver, you will actually drive a GT or Sports car a lot faster than you will drive the Formula 1, because of the problems setting it up properly and controlling the power.
I remember the huge difference in power when I moved from the Catapult to a Dart 18 - not to mention the move on up to the Hawk. Now I find the Spitfire just perfect <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Dermot
Catapult 265
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 175 guests, and 109 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,405
Posts267,058
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1