Spot on Wouter.

I was aboard the committee boat on Saturday. The skipper, using local knowledge, guided the PRO to a known sandbar of just over 5' depth (he actually grounded his keel in the bar to make sure). The course was then laid out such that no boat need cross it while racing. The Water depth was in the 6'- 8' range. The committee went to extraordinary lengths to set the start line so that crab pots would not be a factor.

It would have been impossible to avoid crab pots on the entire course.

OK thanks for your response. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Though we may not necessarily agree on the usefulness or hindrance of high aspect boards on the F16 platform, what truly impresses the hell out of me is that the original boards are still available from the builder and class legal! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Why on earth would that surprise you ? The builder needs to support the boats sold in the first two years that are fitted with the previous daggerboard design. Therefor it is downright obvious that these are still available from the builder.

And why would the old board be no longer class legal when the F16 rules do not specify anything with regards to the daggerboards ?

Buccaneer why don't you just think things through for a minute before replying ?

Wouter

Maybe he has had bad experiences with other classes (one-design classes), where changes were made. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Another thought on the broken mast. . . several years ago with John Williams as crew, we (read I) pitchpoled my nacra 6.0 around A mark in about the same wind range. The mast hit the water with enough force to break the outer diamond wire. I know the 6.0 mast is considerably heavier than the Blade mast and has a wider cross section, my point being that is possible to smack the mast on the water pretty @#*&# hard. Don't know for sure, but I would bet the Blade goes from upright to splashdown quicker than the 6.0 when you stuff it. Just my 2 cents. . .

Kevin Rejda

It would surprise me if I didn't know Matt! I think a lot of companies would view this as an opportunity to sell more boats! But, I'm cynical.

If that is the case then why is he lurking on the Formula 16 forum ?

Wouter

Because he sails an F16?

And if he is sailing an F16 then why is he so hung up on not all daggerboard designs being the same ?

Wouter

(and I think he sails a Taipan, not a Blade anyway)

I thought a Taipan 4.9 was an F16! No? Anyway, this the F16 forum, not the Blade forum.

Wouter,
Sounds to me like a compliment that he is impressed with the Blade manufacturer. Why are you being so offensively defensive?

Both Mary and Pete, please read the whole thread before coming down on me.

Wouter

PLZ!

Well, I don't know why Vectorworks went to deeper daggerboards (must have missed it somewhere on the forums), and I know nothing about what difference the board depth makes as far as depowering.

However, I DO know that the deeper the board the more likely it is to catch a line, whether it is on a crab pot or a mark. We have seen the evidence of this many, many times at our seminars.

Kevin,
Did you find a new boat yet? Gonna get a blade?

PTP
tried to send you a PM, but you are full. Contact me with you email or phone.

Kevin

So can we put all the expert heads together and come up with a tuning guide of all that was learned? Would be nice for all the newbies (to F-16 only) who are looking to or already have the Blade.

Doug

Kevin, try again.. I will pm you also

It is my opninion that it is going to be very tough to right a comprehensive/standard tuning guide for a formula class boat like the F16 AND keep it up to date. My reason for thinking this is that mast rake, spreader rake, diamond tension, mast rotation settings, outhaul settings and downhaul settings are all going to be dependent on what sailmaker you choose and how they have worked with the wing mast. Also, some people have given specific instructions for their circumstances (heavy crew, solo sailing, light crew, predominant sailing conditions, etc.). The sailmakers give set up ranges for the sails they've built (Ullman, Glaser - with more under development, or so I've ascertained).

The rig is really and truly so tunable that my settings could be completely inappropriate for your needs. Much more so than on any other boat that I've sailed. By taking an inacurrate tuning guide at face value, you may waste a whole season chasing the right set up. You'd probably start off closer to being right by following the sailmakers guidelines.

That may be why you don't see a rush of enthusiasm to compile such a "tuning guide". My 2 cents only. Any competing or agreeing thoughts?

Doug,

The magic formula to make youe go fast due to the set-up does not exist.

As Tom stated, you have to set the pre-bend in the mast to match the particular sail you have. There are many combinations of rake, tension etc that in the end will all do the same thing depending on your sailing style and conditions. The on the water adjustments do it from there. Unless you are racing in the leagues with the GA's of the world the rest is more of a distraction than a help.

The Alter cup was hauge example of not worrying about rig or settings. The guys who got on the boat and figured out how to use what was there right away won the regatta. I knew how the boat was supposed to feel and fought it. On day 3 I pulled my head out, realized my mistake and we quickly had had boat speed with the rest.

It is a light weight, sensitive platform. How you hold the tiller, where you stand, when you sheet are the things that will make this boat go or not. We are trying to build a data base of starting points, but given the newness of the boat and the many things that are being tried, there is not even a close consensus as to what works, let alone is optimal. I will gladdly relay to anyone what I use and what feedback I get from others, but until the sailing techniques are perfected for this design, a tuning guide is a little premature.