| Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: Wouter]
#104681 05/02/07 02:37 PM 05/02/07 02:37 PM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,348 | . . .It was more like 2 to 3 meter deep.
Wouter Spot on Wouter. I was aboard the committee boat on Saturday. The skipper, using local knowledge, guided the PRO to a known sandbar of just over 5' depth (he actually grounded his keel in the bar to make sure). The course was then laid out such that no boat need cross it while racing. The Water depth was in the 6'- 8' range. The committee went to extraordinary lengths to set the start line so that crab pots would not be a factor. It would have been impossible to avoid crab pots on the entire course. | | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: Wouter]
#104682 05/02/07 10:53 PM 05/02/07 10:53 PM |
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,479 Thailand Buccaneer
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Posts: 1,479 Thailand | OK thanks for your response. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Though we may not necessarily agree on the usefulness or hindrance of high aspect boards on the F16 platform, what truly impresses the hell out of me is that the original boards are still available from the builder and class legal! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
"House prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals." – Ben Bernanke – 2005
| | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: Buccaneer]
#104683 05/03/07 05:12 AM 05/03/07 05:12 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | what truly impresses the hell out of me is that the original boards are still available from the builder and class legal!
Why on earth would that surprise you ? The builder needs to support the boats sold in the first two years that are fitted with the previous daggerboard design. Therefor it is downright obvious that these are still available from the builder. And why would the old board be no longer class legal when the F16 rules do not specify anything with regards to the daggerboards ? Buccaneer why don't you just think things through for a minute before replying ? Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: Wouter]
#104685 05/03/07 07:07 AM 05/03/07 07:07 AM |
Joined: May 2007 Posts: 127 Rock Hill,SC KevinRejda
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Posts: 127 Rock Hill,SC | Kevin,
How did the breakage on the mast look exactly ?
Looking to learn from this incident and if the cause was some fitting weakening the mast locally then maybe redesign it.
Wouter
Another thought on the broken mast. . . several years ago with John Williams as crew, we (read I) pitchpoled my nacra 6.0 around A mark in about the same wind range. The mast hit the water with enough force to break the outer diamond wire. I know the 6.0 mast is considerably heavier than the Blade mast and has a wider cross section, my point being that is possible to smack the mast on the water pretty @#*&# hard. Don't know for sure, but I would bet the Blade goes from upright to splashdown quicker than the 6.0 when you stuff it. Just my 2 cents. . . Kevin Rejda
Kevin Rejda Rock Hill, SC
| | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: Wouter]
#104686 05/03/07 07:11 AM 05/03/07 07:11 AM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
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Why on earth would that surprise you ? Wouter
It would surprise me if I didn't know Matt! I think a lot of companies would view this as an opportunity to sell more boats! But, I'm cynical.
Last edited by Tikipete; 05/03/07 07:12 AM.
| | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: Mary]
#104687 05/03/07 07:52 AM 05/03/07 07:52 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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If that is the case then why is he lurking on the Formula 16 forum ?
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: Wouter]
#104688 05/03/07 07:59 AM 05/03/07 07:59 AM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
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If that is the case then why is he lurking on the Formula 16 forum ?
Wouter
Because he sails an F16? | | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: fin.]
#104689 05/03/07 08:04 AM 05/03/07 08:04 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | And if he is sailing an F16 then why is he so hung up on not all daggerboard designs being the same ?
Wouter
(and I think he sails a Taipan, not a Blade anyway)
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: Wouter]
#104690 05/03/07 08:06 AM 05/03/07 08:06 AM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
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Posts: 3,348 | And if he is sailing an F16 then why is he so hung up on not all daggerboard designs being the same ?
Wouter
(and I think he sails a Taipan, not a Blade anyway) I thought a Taipan 4.9 was an F16! No? Anyway, this the F16 forum, not the Blade forum. | | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: Mary]
#104692 05/03/07 10:19 AM 05/03/07 10:19 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Both Mary and Pete, please read the whole thread before coming down on me.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: Wouter]
#104693 05/03/07 11:29 AM 05/03/07 11:29 AM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
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Posts: 3,348 | | | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: Wouter]
#104694 05/03/07 03:22 PM 05/03/07 03:22 PM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | Well, I don't know why Vectorworks went to deeper daggerboards (must have missed it somewhere on the forums), and I know nothing about what difference the board depth makes as far as depowering.
However, I DO know that the deeper the board the more likely it is to catch a line, whether it is on a crab pot or a mark. We have seen the evidence of this many, many times at our seminars. | | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: KevinRejda]
#104695 05/03/07 09:07 PM 05/03/07 09:07 PM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,921 Michigan PTP
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Posts: 2,921 Michigan | Kevin,
How did the breakage on the mast look exactly ?
Looking to learn from this incident and if the cause was some fitting weakening the mast locally then maybe redesign it.
Wouter
Another thought on the broken mast. . . several years ago with John Williams as crew, we (read I) pitchpoled my nacra 6.0 around A mark in about the same wind range. The mast hit the water with enough force to break the outer diamond wire. I know the 6.0 mast is considerably heavier than the Blade mast and has a wider cross section, my point being that is possible to smack the mast on the water pretty @#*&# hard. Don't know for sure, but I would bet the Blade goes from upright to splashdown quicker than the 6.0 when you stuff it. Just my 2 cents. . . Kevin Rejda Kevin, Did you find a new boat yet? Gonna get a blade? | | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: PTP]
#104696 05/04/07 07:09 AM 05/04/07 07:09 AM |
Joined: May 2007 Posts: 127 Rock Hill,SC KevinRejda
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Posts: 127 Rock Hill,SC | PTP tried to send you a PM, but you are full. Contact me with you email or phone.
Kevin
Kevin Rejda Rock Hill, SC
| | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: KevinRejda]
#104697 05/04/07 09:50 AM 05/04/07 09:50 AM | Anonymous
Unregistered
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Unregistered | So can we put all the expert heads together and come up with a tuning guide of all that was learned? Would be nice for all the newbies (to F-16 only) who are looking to or already have the Blade.
Doug | | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: ]
#104699 05/04/07 10:20 AM 05/04/07 10:20 AM |
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,121 Eastern NC, USA tshan
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Posts: 1,121 Eastern NC, USA | So can we put all the expert heads together and come up with a tuning guide of all that was learned? Would be nice for all the newbies (to F-16 only) who are looking to or already have the Blade.
Doug It is my opninion that it is going to be very tough to right a comprehensive/standard tuning guide for a formula class boat like the F16 AND keep it up to date. My reason for thinking this is that mast rake, spreader rake, diamond tension, mast rotation settings, outhaul settings and downhaul settings are all going to be dependent on what sailmaker you choose and how they have worked with the wing mast. Also, some people have given specific instructions for their circumstances (heavy crew, solo sailing, light crew, predominant sailing conditions, etc.). The sailmakers give set up ranges for the sails they've built (Ullman, Glaser - with more under development, or so I've ascertained). The rig is really and truly so tunable that my settings could be completely inappropriate for your needs. Much more so than on any other boat that I've sailed. By taking an inacurrate tuning guide at face value, you may waste a whole season chasing the right set up. You'd probably start off closer to being right by following the sailmakers guidelines. That may be why you don't see a rush of enthusiasm to compile such a "tuning guide". My 2 cents only. Any competing or agreeing thoughts?
Tom | | | Re: US Alter Cup Blade F16's
[Re: tshan]
#104700 05/04/07 10:52 AM 05/04/07 10:52 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 548 MERRITTISLAND, FL Matt M
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Posts: 548 MERRITTISLAND, FL | Doug,
The magic formula to make youe go fast due to the set-up does not exist.
As Tom stated, you have to set the pre-bend in the mast to match the particular sail you have. There are many combinations of rake, tension etc that in the end will all do the same thing depending on your sailing style and conditions. The on the water adjustments do it from there. Unless you are racing in the leagues with the GA's of the world the rest is more of a distraction than a help.
The Alter cup was hauge example of not worrying about rig or settings. The guys who got on the boat and figured out how to use what was there right away won the regatta. I knew how the boat was supposed to feel and fought it. On day 3 I pulled my head out, realized my mistake and we quickly had had boat speed with the rest.
It is a light weight, sensitive platform. How you hold the tiller, where you stand, when you sheet are the things that will make this boat go or not. We are trying to build a data base of starting points, but given the newness of the boat and the many things that are being tried, there is not even a close consensus as to what works, let alone is optimal. I will gladdly relay to anyone what I use and what feedback I get from others, but until the sailing techniques are perfected for this design, a tuning guide is a little premature. | | |
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