trav out and down are the same... down would be a more specifc term I guess.. letting the traveler go downwind some. Since you can't get it to windward you could just say letting it "out"

To get back on topic, however amusing the diversion might be <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Are you able to flatten your mainsail properly? If you on a quiet day sheet the main as hard as you can and apply max downhaul, does the main go completely flat except for the lower third? When the wind really pipes up, it is important to be able to trim your sails flat. On our boat we aim for a really flat sail when applying max downhaul and mainsheet.

When sailing in high winds, I dont think you should aim to trim the downhaul all the time. Set it so you are fully powered up in the lulls, and use the sheet to depower a bit in the puffs. Crew handles the sail controls and spots gusts while helm is sailing the boat, no more. Also, realise that by dumping the main you let the mast straighten, especially the upper part. A straighter mast makes your mainsail fuller and let the jibs luff fall off, this power up the boat instead of depowering. If you are easing more then 30-40cm of mainsheet in the gusts, I think you should either use more downhaul, or if maxed out let the traveller out a bit.
It's amazing what windspeed you can go fast in when you get used to it and adapt to it step by step. It is partly about skill but mostly preparing mentally. It can be hard on the gear tough!

nice Robi, that's right thier with the "O REALLY" owl. "Cat on a pole Ted, through Maine" ? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wow, I sit through a couple lousy meetings and this is what I come back to <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


We don't put the boards up... just leave them full down. I'll try that next time we're out. I usually set the mast rotator before we leave and we don't usually adjust it unless it seems to be way off.



You might have hit it on the head. With some reading last summer, I starting working the main in the puffs, but only about an arms length or so. If I have to go further than that, I compensate by pinching a little. Then if I still have to bail out, I'll let the main slide through my hand with usually results in anywhere between 2-5 feet being loosened. This circus act is usually followed by reeling the main back in to try to catch the end of the puff. So on days like this past weekend, I end up zig-zagging my way across the lake.

My crew has been pretty adamant that he doesn't want the main in his hand. he's happy with the jib and downhaul. I think we probably need to go out on a calm day and have him work the main so we're more consistent through the puffs.
I'll have to try letting out the traveler and holding closer to the same heading. Thanks.

Probably sound advice, but I didn't think 15-20mph was all _that_ heavy. The stuff we were in this weekend is about as much as I want to be out in. It just seems like I'm missing something that lets me use a little more of that wind.

I know there's a limit, I've had days that I get to the landing, look at what's blowing in and have just pulled right back out again.

Thanks. I'll have to look closer at the main the next time we're out. So, if the top of the mast doesn't have enough bend, I will still have too much power in the sail effectively causing drag and a premature top speed. Right?

More to think about. Thanks. Maybe I'll have to bum a ride from one of you that knows what you're doing. Anyone near Appleton?

Rule of thumb. :

-1- When you need to let go of more mainsheet then an arms length (not adjusting your grip) then crank on some more downhaul till you can suffice with an arms length (or less)

-2- If cranking on the downhaul is too hard to do then head up into the wind a little and crank on the mainsheet after which your crew pulls the downhaul tight. Then release some mainsheet and bare off. The downhaul will now be tensioned much more then you could achieve without a tight mainsheet.

-3- If all this is still not enough then let the mainsheet traveller out some.

When to lift the boards on a cat is very dependent on the design and on how you like to sail it.

Wouter

Thanks. I think I have been trying to live too much by rule 1 and not incorporating 2 enough. Based on recent topics here of people looking at massive downhaul ratio's, I suspect I need to man up and put some muscle into my 8:1 downhaul.

I'll have to try the boards and see what it does with them up. I've always just put them down and left them.

After reading your comments, the first thing I would do is start working on your in-boat communication. You definately want your crew to cleat the jib and handle the mainsheet. You will not be able to helm properly and run the mainsheet at the same time. Learning to trust each other and developing the teamwork onboard is a large part of what I enjoy when sailing the Tornado in big air.

I think you are spot on about how deep sails in strong winds make your speed peak too soon.

Don't bother. Leave the boards all the way down going upwind on the 18-2 always. These folks are talking about some high aspect ratio boards like the I20 and F18. Don't bother with your centerboards on the 18-2.

Just travel out about 4 inches and you should be good to go.

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com

Boy did your thread get hijacked! I've been in similar conditions with my P19 and have found more speed upwind by flattening the main so much I thought I'd break something. And I did once. The jib halyard let go due to the weak brummel hook. I improved it with a very strong yet very small shackle(no halyard lock on my jib). The point is to use your legs to help you really crank on the mainsheet and downhaul-then pull out the jib leads. Once everything is tight and your sails are flat you can start to ease the traveller if you're still overpowered. You sound like you have enough weight out on the wire. Extend as much as possible and see what happens. The 18-2 is like the P19 in that the boards are small and you need to head down a few degrees to keep your speed up. As a previous poster mentioned-steering the waves correctly makes a big difference but it isn't easy to do.

On the other hand - there is only 1 way to gain experience! Just make sure there are a few rescue craft about when you do it.

Tiger Mike

Yeah, this thread took the long way around. Thanks though for all the advice. All of this gives me more to think about and try next time I'm out. Looks like I won't get a chance until next week though.

I had one more piece of advice that I omitted from my post. An important part of getting a P18-2 or P19 to point is to get your weight way forward when the wind picks up. The skipper should be near the middle of the boat and the crew should be even with the main beam. This assumes both skipper and crew weigh 165lbs. Regardless, you want to get that leeward bow depressed. You'll be surprised how much it helps your pointing ability.