Hello Everyone, I have a few question about the Blade F16. I'm considering building one, but want to get the full story. I have also emailed Phill but haven't had a response yet, and the www.bladecatamarans.com seems to be down.

Firstly, does anybody have any projected cost break downs on what it costs to build a boat vs buying a boat “off the shelf”.

I’d be especially interested in the price for a mast (alloy), foils, sails, cross beams/tramp, and rigging/fittings.

Also what do the plan’s include? I’m assuming they have building instruction, do they also have paper templates for cutting out the ply panels?

Finally I've heard that the blade is more suitable for carrying heavier weight, what would be the ideal weight range? I weigh 100kg, and would be sailing solo, as well as with a crew (most like my partner) who weighs around 65kg.

I look forward to hearing from you all, I’m located in Victoria (Australia).

Chris.

Keep looking down the list, or on the next pages, there was quite a detailed thread about building one of wood a month ago, lots of good pictures too, I just can't remember the title of the thread. Wouter?

That's very unusual! Phil is great about helping out, I'm sure he'll be in touch as soon as he can.

Phill is having a little bit of water trouble. As in being surrounded by it and having lost power and all related communications to the outside world. There has been some very heavy rain fall in NSW lately.

It will be a few days before Phill can actually read the e-mail that has been send to him and reply.

About the homebuilder link :

This is the one about valtteri, a homebuilder in Finland.

http://www.rahkonen.fi/blog/

And there is another one over there as well :

http://www.gust.ax/gallery/sydvast_maritime/

The latter guy has just completed his daysailing monohull, for more info and pics go to

http://www.gust.ax/gallery/

The students at the Sydväst Maritime school are applying 160 gram glass cloth the whole hull ! That boat is going to have one dependable set of hulls ! 4 mm ply and then a layer of class over it. For the pics go to :

http://www.gust.ax/gallery/sydvast_maritime/2007-05-09/

Wouter

Chris
Its not only the costs that you must consider it s the time and the space.Do you have an understanding partner??
the costs will depend on whet you can do yourself ie rigging (stays trapwires)Would you have to pay somebody to paint it? Can you build your own tramp?
Do you need a trailer?
I think these would be questions to ask your self also
I would think you would need about $7000 to$8000 to complete
If you would like a rough break down im finshing off a taipan at the moment
I have the mast section (blank)to finish rigging it $1200
thats doing my own swaging
tramp $500 with help from a mate
painting $300 doing myself
Anew main end of the season $1500 i think i have that im using now
I have a trailer i can use but it needs about $300 to get it going
I have rudders Centreboards beams hulls
but if you needed to buy them/build them you might be looking at another $4000?
Sorry to rain on your parade butgo in with eyes open
richard

Richard is spot on there, the hulls may take the longest time to build but the material cost for them is roughly 1/4 - 1/3 of the total cost. The other stuff is difficult for a home-builder to construct without the correct tools and experience.

Other than that, give it a go, it can be frustrating at times but is very rewarding in the end.

How much was the taipan blank mast section? Not sure if you mean the section was $1200 or to finish it is $1200.

PS. Fairing sucks!

Nick
i have the mast section,and yesby the time you add all the fittings,mast base,rotation spanner,downhaul,ropes,hounds,spreaders,all wires,etc and i have probably forgotten some gear, it all adds up
that's why its a good idea to price it up.
So at least the sponser(aka wife/partner/better half/etc)doesn't have to much of a panic attack (been there it's not worth the grief)
richard

OH bugger YES forgot to add fairing does suck

Thanks everyone, I was expecting the rig sails, and foils to cost the most. It's a little scary when you add it all up.

If I decide to build, does anyone in Australia have a deck jig they've finished using?

To complicate things further I only have a single car garage, i've built a 13ft monohull in there, so I might have to do one hull at a time. At least until the stage it can be stored undercover outside.

Regards, Chris.

chris
yes it does cost when you add it up,
the deck jig are normally built for the job and buy the time they have two hulls built in them they are normally buggered (or close to it)
the deck jigs are only a small part of the cost as well you should be able to built it for about $150.00
if you decide to build, build the two hulls at once ,it's really hard to build the 2nd once the first one is finished.
Good luck with your choice,as nick said it can be frustrating but rewarding
richard

I'm building my two hulls in effectively a 1 car garage (with also very little head room). I found there was only room for one mould/jig, but once that is moved out/dismantled, there is room for two hulls. It can be done but occasionally you need to shift one off to the side as far as possible, and you get used to shuffling them around on saw-horses.

I had typed up a considerable reply only to have he forum software throw it out because of a glitch. So here is the summary.



My homebuild was only some 20 % cheaper then the commercially offered F16's. Back in the day however there were no F16's (I have the very first one) and so homebuilding was the only option. Don't do because you expect to safe alot of money, you won't.

Homebuilding is something you must consider when you want to life the experience of building or because you want something that no commercial builder can offer you. Otherwise just get a second job in the evening working in a bar and earn the difference in purchase cost that way. This is quicker and easier.




Phill can tell you all on this. Mast blank is I believe 850 Aus, but a very large portion is added by the mast fittings, halyards etc. Beams are cheap and you can buy a good set of the commercial Aus Blade builder (Marcus), Tramp you can easily make yourself and is inexpensive. Sails are expensive, there is no way around that; don't try to make these yourself as a good set is very hard to make and requires multiple tries. Additionally sailing an F16 with a bad set of sails is simply no fun. All rigging is expensive. Foils/rudders seem to be less expensive then most people realize and very good commercial sets can be had for the F16. The best set, so far, can be had of www.catamaranparts.nl for, what I think, is a very respectable pricing. Shipping these items is also not expensive as they small and light.





It confirm that. This is indeed my opinion. I have a Taipan F16 myself and 2 others have Blade F16's at my club. A few times I sailed the Blade F16 and I found it to be more calm then my Taipan and significantly more capable to carry weight in a competitive sense. We've sailed it at 165 kg combined in chop and it felt just fine. That weight on my Taipan will start to feel sluggish.

Of all the homebuildable plans for racing boats that I know of (Taipan, Blade, Mosquito, A-cat, Tornado), both the Blade and Tornado will carry crew weight the best. And the Blade has the most extensive building instructions and best direct support (Phill) of them all.





The Australian Blade Builder is located in Southern Australia and you should really take a look there. Or get Gary Maskiel (Victoria) to take you for a ride when his boat has been delivered. Why ?

Well I'll give you the advice that was given to me when I was considering homebuilding. It will safe you alot of time (and ready to sail boat weight) when you just buy two commercially offered hulls and then finish the boat off yourself. This still leave a very large portion of the homebuilding experience including the parts you may well want to do differently. This will get you on the water about a year earlier and by now it is very hard to compete with the commericially build hulls when homebuilding. That is in the way of weight and shape. It can be done but it will take dedication and alot of care to worling cleanly and accurately.

I would go the second route. It is simply the best of both worlds. So that is why I advice you check out the Aussie build hulls and see if they are indeed good enough to convince you to go this route as well.

Go to this thread to see pics of these hulls :

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...er=108517&Main=107988#Post108517


Wouter

Hi Chris,

another option may be a second hand ply Blade. I know of one for sale at a reasonable price, only one season old and built with the assistance of a professional boat builder. PM me your details if you are interested and I can talk to you and put you in touch with the seller.

Hi All

Just a few examples.

Mast Sections and fittings to DIY, $2700

Boom and fittings, with Mainsheet Systems $770 - $850

Rudders,centreboards, Stocks, Tiller and Cross arm $2300

Trampoline $430 - $475.

*based on Taipan 4.9 prices in $Oz.

Chris,
I'm back online now after more than 4 days without electricity.
I responded to your email early this morning,so if you have not already, please check your mail. If you have any more questions just reply to my email and I should be able to get back to you sooner now.

Regards,
Phill

With respect to my timber Taipan F16 project, I've spend some 13.000 Euro's to build it to a full spec sloop with spinnaker boat. At the time a Taipan F16 from AHPC including shipping was 16.000 Euro's overhere. So it saved me some 20 %. That was all. However I did get honour of having the first purpose build F16.

I bought the plans, rudders, stocks, daggerboards and superwing mast (all AHPC Taipan components).

Mainbeam is off an old broken Taipan mast and the rearbeam is an 80x2 mm round alu section (better platform stiffness)

I bought the sails (Redhead, Goodall)

and I bought mostly Ronstan fittings, some Riley and proctor fittings and hardly any Harken fittings.

Snuffer ring was Goodall, I got one of the very first.

All the rest was homebuild, and again, the cost savings were only some 20 % and some 2.5 years were spend building. With the new price for a fully fitted Blade F16 at 14.165 Euro incl. taxes and delivery to only some 1.5 km from my club I would not consider homebuilding again. I rather spend those 2 years sailing. I may however consider building some parts of it myself like the mast, as I have different idea's about that then most sailors.

However, I'm very proud of my Taipan F16 catamaran and it will stay with me for another couple of years, it is a good boat.

Wouter