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Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: Berny] #110286
06/28/07 06:26 PM
06/28/07 06:26 PM
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Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline OP
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But they are human, and do make silly mistakes, and gear does break and the wind does shift. Absent all of that and on identical boats, yes, it would be decided by the flip of a coin. But that's what makes us watch it, the human part, the chance that something might happen, that the underdog might come back and win it all. But with the teams so mixed in nationality, deep in tallent and well funded, is there any true underdog in this AC regatta?


Blade F16
#777
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: Timbo] #110287
06/28/07 08:21 PM
06/28/07 08:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline
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The same goes for any other competition, not just sailing. Runners have preferred starting lanes, race cars like to get poll position (which is often hard to lose). It is the human error mistakes that make competition interesting. Have you seen some of the extremely tight Moto GP races recently? 2-5 riders changing places on nearly every corner in the last half of the race!!! great to watch!

From a spectators point of view, I'd love to see shorter sailing races on smaller boats. Much more exciting, also lets the spectators get closer.

Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: ncik] #110288
06/28/07 11:12 PM
06/28/07 11:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
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Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
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Moto-GP awesome...but you see some passing. F1 is at a stage where any passing not in the pits is considdered wonderful and one pass in a whole race is all you might get.
Less machinery and electronics leads to more human error and more fun.

Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: warbird] #110289
06/28/07 11:31 PM
06/28/07 11:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline
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haha instead of banning electronic devices, allow EMP machines and have everyone on the same radio channel! Then it'd be useless to carry any electronic devices.

Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: ncik] #110290
06/29/07 05:18 AM
06/29/07 05:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Or go to boats that are considerably faster making minor human error more of a major problem to create larger variability.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: Jake] #110291
06/29/07 07:40 AM
06/29/07 07:40 AM
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Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
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AARRRRRGGGH! Sailing is a fantastic ride of emotion! The spinny has blown and the wine glass is cleared and it is 1.35 am and we are in the right where there is morte pressure. Were are 180 metres behind but might have a quicker run to the mark.......
James Spithil is commentating and I feel for the Auzzies. They have a great skipper in him and not enough desire in the money part of the crew.

Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: warbird] #110292
06/29/07 07:58 AM
06/29/07 07:58 AM
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West coast of Norway
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And they say sailing is not a good TV sport.. I tought my head was going to melt when ETNZ blew their spi, hourglassed #2 and had to do a "takedown by escort boat". Virtual spectator really do a good job. Not sure who I am cheering on tough, but I think my sympaties lies with the kiwis.

Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #110293
06/29/07 10:19 AM
06/29/07 10:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Quote
...I dislike match racing because for me it's boring... to make an interesting race / series of it, [keep the sponsors happy] they choose not to cover and allow fortune, chance, luck, [call it what you will],to effect the outcome to some degree.
It's the only way to make a very boring procession into decent spectacle.


Quote
...ETNZ blew their spi, hourglassed #2 and had to do a "takedown by escort boat".


I must agree. Match race is one thing more to limit the volatility of sailing results.
Strict rules and limitations to the resources that can be used greatly reduce this volatility. As a result, the cup usually goes to the best boat, meaning the fastest boat that can do the job.

Except for extreme mistakes (which we have not seen lately) I think that if the teams switched anything but the boats the results would remain the same. But if they switched boats, I'd expect to see the same boat winning.

There's a say about it:
"in the AC the boat makes the crew look good and in offshore racing the crew makes the boat look good".

Today the AC is a contest to see who has more money to spend and, if there's a tie, who spends it more efficiently to obtain the best boat.


Luiz
Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #110294
06/29/07 10:58 AM
06/29/07 10:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 430
Virginia Beach, VA
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Yep, today's race was hard to watch if you are a TENZ fan like I am, but there is a bright side! Soon as I saw the forecast for the higher wind speed, I thought the race was already over since Alinghi has always seemed faster when the breeze was up in prior races. But I was wrong!

TENZ looked real strong in that breeze heading upwind. I really thought Alinghi would walk away after that awesome start by TENZ, but they didn't. Now, TENZ can go back to the barn with a little more info. They do have good boat speed in the breeze, and their boat appeared to be moving through the waves better.........!

Tom


Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: Luiz] #110295
06/29/07 04:14 PM
06/29/07 04:14 PM
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Bay of Islands, NZ
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TNZ have one of the smallest budgets and the highest budge t(Allison) is long gone...so while monoey is a big concern it is not what wins.
I am gutted that we have made two clear sailing errors. We got around the first one but this one has likely cost us the regatta.

Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: warbird] #110296
06/29/07 06:26 PM
06/29/07 06:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 461
Sydney Australia
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One design boats and strictly national crews.

Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: warbird] #110297
06/29/07 07:50 PM
06/29/07 07:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Quote
TNZ have one of the smallest budgets and the highest budge t(Allison) is long gone...so while monoey is a big concern it is not what wins.
I am gutted that we have made two clear sailing errors. We got around the first one but this one has likely cost us the regatta.


B.S. This regatta is far from over. Hang in there. While I think some of the ground gained by NZ was due to Alinghi trying to keep it close (i.e...having big separation is risky)...the Kiwis showed some muscle today - the start was f'in incredible. Get'em Dean!!! The fight is on now.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: Jake] #110298
06/29/07 08:47 PM
06/29/07 08:47 PM
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Posts: 2,921
Michigan
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is there somewhere online to watch the races? On the americascup website it requires a fee to watch the animations...

Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: warbird] #110299
06/29/07 08:54 PM
06/29/07 08:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Quote
TNZ have one of the smallest budgets and the highest budget(Allison) is long gone...


Any idea of the actual figures?


Luiz
Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: Luiz] #110300
06/29/07 09:34 PM
06/29/07 09:34 PM
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Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
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It is just something I heard on the news the other day..so no actual figures.

Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: Jake] #110301
06/29/07 09:37 PM
06/29/07 09:37 PM
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Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
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Good on you Jake. We have two port entries..so we sort of lost the serve.
If we take it to them ion the start box sure we have a chance but the penalty looms.
I would like to see two more weather days like this last one though. The boats are beautiful creatures in that sort of wind.
I see today as a crucial start. But that is stating the obvious. And yes Berny, one design national crews budget cap.

Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: warbird] #110302
06/30/07 12:03 AM
06/30/07 12:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 461
Sydney Australia
Berny Offline
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Quote
Good on you Jake. We have two port entries..so we sort of lost the serve.
If we take it to them ion the start box sure we have a chance but the penalty looms.
I would like to see two more weather days like this last one though. The boats are beautiful creatures in that sort of wind.
I see today as a crucial start. But that is stating the obvious. And yes Berny, one design national crews budget cap.


Lasers.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Na, just kidding,

I meant big Lasers. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: PTP] #110303
06/30/07 05:27 AM
06/30/07 05:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
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Detroit, MI
Quote
is there somewhere online to watch the races? On the americascup website it requires a fee to watch the animations...


If you dig around a bit, you can find the free live radio feed. It's kinda wierd listening to a sailboat race called on the radio.

Certainly, my boss thinks so, since I've been listening at work. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: mbounds] #110304
06/30/07 06:16 AM
06/30/07 06:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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http://www.americascup.com/en/americascup/how_to_follow/index.html

then scroll down to "On-Line" and click "Live Coverage" under www.americascup.com. You get some graphics showing who is in the lead and by how much, a few relatively live images, and audio.


Jake Kohl
Re: America's Cup... tactics? [Re: PTP] #110305
06/30/07 06:25 AM
06/30/07 06:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 430
Virginia Beach, VA
Thomm225 Offline
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Quote
is there somewhere online to watch the races? On the americascup website it requires a fee to watch the animations...


Patrick,

The AC races are also on VS which used to be OLN here in Pensacola. It's on at 0730 live, and there are replays at 1200 and 1800 I believe. VS (Versus) is channel 42 in Pensacola. BTW, the Tour De France is also on that channel starting next week. That may not interest most sailors but this will. I have lost 15 pounds cycling, and I know how most sailors are concerned about weight aboard the boat. It's not a bad sport to take up when not sailing...........

Tom

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