I've seen references to "maxing out the downhaul". I am wanting opinions on what the delta is from downhaul-on-wrinkle-free to MAX-downhaul. How many cm's or inches do you add on to get to MAX. Not Ronstan numbers please because I have no idea how to convert that.

Are you 2 handing/2 feeting a 12:1 downhaul to get to MAX?

Mine is 12:1 mainsheet in tight and then with 1 hand and bending/extending my knees. I'll S shape the top 3 or 4 battens when there is no wind in the sail. Carbon Mast and Landy single handed sail.

Max really is as much as you can get and then a little more !

Good question because I get the feeling I am not getting as much as I should but can't tell. It gets really difficult to pull more than maybe 3 inches from snug to "can't get anymore." Which seems like way too little. Much different than the previous boats I have been on but those masts were longer and had different purchase systems. It seems to do what it is supposed to though even with only 3 inches.

It is hard to get it beyond that aside from one handing it with one foot on the mast which really makes me nervous. I think that much effort should be unnecessary and if this is the case, there needs to be another pruchase in there somewhere).

You can get much further by cranking on the mainsheet and then cranking on the downwind. Best is to do both simultaniously.

Wouter

do it from the wire !

steps are

1, Crank the mainsail in as hard as you can (feather to windward to stop swimming) with BOTH hands (tuck the tiller under the aft shoulder.

2, Then move forward and gram the DH rope; pull in all the slack and as much as you can without bending your knees.

3, Bend tour knees, grab the DH hope tight and then extend your legs. You then MIGHT have enough DH on when it's real windy. With practice you can do this fairly quickly.

try in on a light wind day on the beach; get someone to balance the boat on the other side, and but the boat on something soft; pull the main in and then the DH and then mark the mast - this then gives you something to aim for (and exceed one day).

The current Blade internal downhaul will provide right at 10" of travel. According to Charlie at Ullman, the sails only alow for about 8". Beyond that you are doing some strange things to the mast. I usually put just a little pre load on it so would theoretically have more room, but anywhere after about that 8" the mast top is screwy and it does not like to tack over.

I checked mine this weekend. What seemed to be a good up wind setting all the way till we were double trapped was right around 5" down from the fully relaxed position. Later in the day as the wind picked up we went up to about 7". There was probably about another inch to go before we would start adjusting other things to continue depowering if the wind continued to build.

Matt

This is probably obvious, but with the internal downhaul it's important to make sure that you've pulled all the travel through before cleating. i.e. let off one or both of the cam cleats, then pull the rope through until you feel the internal blocks hit the stop. Then, as Matt suggests, put it through the sail and cleat it with a little bit of tension on it.

Paul

yeah, that is important. When I reset the int downhaul on a HT I sail on Ididn't do that and maxed out way early.
As for me only getting 3-4 inches or so... I need to recheck. Unless I am wrong on the estimation, I am one weak bastard or something is broken.

(numbers in inches of my downhaul measurement sticker)

I think my mainsail luff starts off untensioned at 2 or something. I then pretension it to 4 or 5. I do this as Paul says. Pull the blocks in the mast all the way up, then cleat the handheld downhaul line and then pull the sail down to number 4 or 5 before tying of the downhaul line itself.

While sailing I quickly need to go to 6 or 7 when putting on some moderate mainsheet tension.

With strong winds I have gone as far as all the way down to the boom = 10, with a mainsheet cranked on hard.

This would indeed be something like 8 inches of downhaul travell and the mast does show a major curve then.

It is easy to get down this that setting on my boat when pulling on the mainsheet and downhaul at the same time or first pull on the mainsheet and then pull on the downhaul after which some more mainsheet is pulled and again some more downhaul.

The only thing to be cautious about is slacking the mainsheet totally when the downhaul is still set to 10. This puts ALOT !!! of downhaul tension on the luff of the mainsail and it does not really like that happening too often. So let of some downhaul before slacking the mainsheet by large amounts; like after the finishing. 3 to 4 inches slacking is enough then.

Wouter

Are you rigging the 2;1 purchase on the clew corner properly ?

If not then you only have 6:1 purchase instead of 12;1 and that makes a difference.

Wouter

Thanx for the responses. WOW I think that so far I've only added 2 inches from my de-wrinkle stage. Guess, I've got a bit more to go!
So, I can pull it on to my hearts content without tearing/breaking things. I only have to make sure that the downhaul is eased before slacking the mainsheet.
I realized earlier this year that the 12:1 internal was actually only 6:1 with the second stage of 2:1 happening at the foot of the sail. I had been passing the line through the cringle and realized that I needed to tie a block on below the sail to maximize my efforts.

I suppose this would be true rounding the windward mark.

the internal part is 6:1 but when you put the line that comes out of the mast through a block on the sail then to a cleat/eye on the other side this doubles the purchase (a cascading system). I just need to play with mine some more.
Good thing to know about letting downhaul off before mainsheet... yet another thing to remember... and forget.

And only when the downhaul was on very very tightly. Think at least 7 inches of downhaul travel.

5 inches of downhaul travel is something I leave on regulary without any worry. From the totally untension state I must add.

Wouter

Hi all,

allways be aware there are large differences in the movement depending on the brand and material of sails. So be wary of using measurements.

Glen Ashby's rule of thumb to me, was with 12 to 1 downhaul you can pull as hard as you like with out doing damage, he made the his luffs strong enough for this. But allways let it off before dropping mainsheet at the top mark.

Just a word of warning when letting off before the top mark be careful, as on one up "Altered" it would power back up so much I nearly tipped over a number of times <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />, as by this stage you have often stopped pointing to make the mark and have started to head for the mark, with no main luffing. So you have to be ready to ease the main. To be honest, alot of the time I found it to difficult, so let downhaul off after letting mainsheet off, before pulling kite up. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I am looking forward to trying the downhaul.....We have only sailed in light fluky lake air since we have gotten the Blade. But it is a GREAT light air boat and we have placed 3 first and a second in the last 4 races. We can't wait to get into so wind and really sail!!!

Even in light winds sufficient downhaul tension can pay off on the alu superwing sail.

I don't know the Glaser sails, but Ashby and redhead sails seem to like a firm downhaul in light winds.

Wouter

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

walked into that one!

I went out solo yesterday and really flattened the head of the sail with about 4 inches of downhaul- like board flat... any flatter and it would.. well... still be flat. Decent wind, not excessive- maybe 7-8ish or so. Huge difference (surprise) when I let off the downhaul and was able to really tell the difference.
Still not sure I am getting the distance though. I need to pay more attention (paying attention to driving, then trying to sheet in the main really tight to get more downhaul, then windvaning into the wind, then driving backwards for a minute, then forgetting to look again) but afer those 4 inches or so from completely slack to "can't get anymore no matter how hard I pull" i barely come down to 8 on the scale (10 at top). And I didn't put the stickers on there either.

Well each mainsail is different of course and you'll need to find out what works for you.

Everybody has to do that.

Wouter