No disrespect meant here, but at least Performance has newer boats to choose from. What's Hobie's replacement for the 20...

Before you get too excited about getting the molds... This concept has been raised before, after other models have been discontinued. It doesn't work, but I would think we would always listen to a serious offer.

We will still be using them to build replacement hulls when needed and we are going to continue to supply replacement parts for many, many years to come.

The "latest" Performance boat is the I20 right or do they call that the N20 now? We tried the Fox, but that didn't go over well. Why? Honestly? I think the 20 footer market is so small here that we are just stepping out for now. That's the only logical way to go.

We are sticking with the 12-18 footers that sell well.

There's a hard core group of Sea Spray devotees out there--didn't they acquire the moulds??? Are Sea Sprays being produced now in someone's garage?

This doesn't belong here - it has never been dependent on factory production and is still thriving today with both new boats and self-build plans available. However, I think one could reasonably include the Tiger Shark in the list as well as plenty of others indigenous to Australasia.

Mark.

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That's funny. you picked one boat out of a list of 50 or more that he threw out there... really doesn't change his list a whole lot. I think that chuckle warrants a smiley <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I realize you were just trying to make his list more accurate, but it struck me funny.

To add to the list
Dingo - My first boat, fond memories of it.

Glad I could add a little cheer to your day <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I absolutely agree with the subtext of Matt's post (hopefully clear from my earlier comments). Just gotta stick up for the mighty PT!

Mark.

A few glaring omissions from your list

The Hobie 14

The Hobie 17

The Hobie 18

After so many years of being THE Leader in the catamaran sailing community, It distresses me a great deal to see you justify the direction your company is taking by comparing yourselves to so many followers.

I'm not saying that simply because it is called the N-20 it is a new boat different from the I-20. Point was that when the 6.0na was retired the I-20 was there to pick up. The name change was a marketing decision I'm sure, not cause for derision. You could call the H-20 the Hurricane II if you thought that would help.

Honestly, the imported Fox attempt was half-hearted at best. It didn't take off because it didn't fair well in comparison to the I-20s. I'm not sure you can judge the market for 20 foot cats based on that effort.

After so many years of being THE Leader in the catamaran sailing community, It distresses me a great deal to see you justify the direction your company is taking by comparing yourselves to so many followers. [/quote]

Come on, we could make the same list with automobiles. The Camaro/Firebird had a lot of supporters, too, but GM dropped that one. That list tells the whole story (and why didn't I pick up on the missing Hobies?). Beachcats are not a static market. It all comes down to how many active racers out there are buying new 14s/17s/18s/20s, because ONLY the active racers are buying them. Clearly not enough for Hobie. If you want to change their mind, build the fleet and find 20 new buyers a year (is 20 enough?). And don't let those 20 guys buy any of the dozens of decent used boats...

OK, how many I-20s are out there in the US? <500? <300? How many are active? H20 sail numbers got up to the 900s, not sure they sold that many. How many F18s in the US? How many active 19'-20' racers in dead boats (non-Hobie)? <200? On the whole bay, I see <5; probably <5 up in Jersey, too. There's a bigger market for replica Cobras, I bet.

I think you guys are really missing the point here...Hobie make Getaways because they SELL!!!! and they SELL because people BUY them... and people BUY them because this is what THEY want. THEY want a boat which takes 5 minutes to rig, takes hardly any time to fix and give them maximum time on the water. it's that simple. It gets many more new people to the water (in a very friendly safe way) and it is the future of sailing and it's biggest hope. out of the thousends of new comers will come the next generation of racers...for sure.

Rest assured, we still are. Hobie is far and away the number one manufacturer of cats and a huge contender for small sailboats in general.

That hasn't changed.

What is changing is our standing as a leader in small boat manufacturing. We have been moving up that list steadily.

Dang, so much meanness,
Matt is taking a beating here and he's just an employee of Hobie. Give him a break! How many other manufacturer's representatives are putting themselves out here to get hammered? Not many! That in itself should be a testament to Hobie's commitment to its customers. Matt provides accurate information, technical and otherwise all the time. And, he responds to questions on the forums usually pretty fast. There are no other manufacturers doing that what so ever. So get over the bashing, it's not his decision to discontinue the 20. Let's be a little more civil to each other. It's easy to fire off on someone on the phone or on the forums. Speak to people like you were speaking to them in person.

The Catsailor forums get a harsh sometimes and it stops the flow of useful information. We see posts all the time talking about how we can grow interest in the sport. When newbies get here, I'm afraid they might get turned off by the hardened words.

Now, basically we are having an emotional response to this decision, and not thinking it through. In my tenure as a dealer for Hobie, since 1998, I have sold 4 Hobie 20's. And here in Div 3 we have one of the largest 20 racing fleets in the world. We have the current NA champions sailing at our regattas, as well as some other top placing sailors. Typically we have 12-15 boats on the line and it's growing everyday. People have been importing new(er) boats from Washington, Texas, Iowa, SoCal and all over.

Is there anyone out there that was planning on ordering a new 20 for the NA's in Alameda? That's where I was planning on selling a few new 20's, but nothing materialized in the form of a deposit. You would figure that the largest class regatta of the year would yield one sale of a new boat, right? That tells me that interest in new 20's is not there and it was probably a good decision from a manufacturers standpoint. The newest 20 bought in our division is a 2000...it's now 7 years later. The newest 20 being sailed in our division is a 2003 imported from TX.
There you go.

Despite my harsh tone, I'm kind of bummed too. Just give Matt a break, he doesn't deserve it! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Matt, I totally understand the reason to stop production, simple supply and demand. The rotos are what sell in quantity and are obviously cheaper to produce therefore a higher margin. I think the mistake was made when HCA demanded that only Hobie boats could compete in HCA events. I can only assume that was a last ditch effort to sell alot of boats for a product line that was already on the brink. Could better product development have saved it? We'll never know. Personally I think it was the wrong move, and it alienated many sailors, and potential customers. I think the market is small for the higher performance boats, at least here in the U.S. Catamaran racing seems to be much bigger in Europe. Sorry to see the line shrink further, I think it's only a sign of things to come.


P.S. there are alot of sailors who wanted a spin rigged 20 footer. I'm 215 lbs. and if I want crew I need a 20 footer. As I recall it was the comptip that killed the fox. Made it too hard to trim. The what if the tiger had one??? Where would it be?

Man... shoot the messenger. I'm just two stars now! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

dont worry matt..we are right behind you..hiding..

The mistake was made before that. It was allowing open class in... to begin with. Restricting open class is a whole different can of worms, but Hobie Alter's concept of one design was a good one and is practiced by most one design classes.



We actually sold the fox with aluminum masts after a VERY short attempt at using CompTips, so that wasn't it. I think the deal that killed it was here already. The I20 is sold in the USA with an over sized sail plan. The Fox was a Euro F20... we could have had an F20 fleet here in the US but for Performance making the I20 non-conforming.

Otherwise they wouldn't be called one design classes in the first place, right ? Nice circular reasoning !

But Matt is right, on business reasons the discontinuation of the H-20 makes sense.

So that makes Trifoiler, Hobie 30 mono, Hobie Fox, H13, H14, H15, TheMightyHobie18, H17, H20.


<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> On to the next round. Please, make your bets ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The remaining choices are :

Hobie 16, Hobie FX-one and Hobie Tiger.


Which boat type is the next to be discontinued in this glass fibre death match for the "bottom line" - award.

As with the Highlander, there can be only one !


Wouter