in our club, which stores 120 cats (mostly Hobies and Nacras) when I organize a regatta, I have 10-15 boats, when I organize a raid, with a nice BBQ in the middle, we have 40-50 boats.
easy simple math...

People have been talking about what a PINTA the spinny setup is to rig etc. I have no race fleet so with my development boat I have decided on small jib and roller furling hooter a la Rick.....I suppose some people like the million line rig but I sail alone and just cannot be fagged.
Re Getaway. I suppose I look at the 17 with wings and the 18 with wings and wonder why anyone would bother with the rotomold...but I am not a dad.
The Hobie 17 always struck me a a wonderful dedicated boat. Like the Mazda MX5 when it first came out. Dedicated to a specific and no comprimise. I was stunned it did not take off like wild fire and more stunned when it was discontinued. But I do remember one racing against H16s. It was faster but the guy could just not make it tack. It is a fabulous family boat with the jib in the right hands. We have a family of dad and kids who use one here for play and have a ball.

Hi Pat

I completely forgot about the start fiasco.
It was truly ugly when every class was awarded a start... the sequence at Gunpowder took 35 minutes to complete one year..10 minute sequence plus 16 A, B and C plus 17's 18's and 20;s... (Open started on the 5 minute gun). Worse.. you would only have a handful of boats in most of these starts... Yes.. the C fleet would go one lap and then sit for half an hour.... Not fun.

It took forever (years) to get the starts down to three..
16's, + 17's and 18's. + open and 20's The HCA rules did not speed this process up if I remember... Lots of noise about wuf wuf wuf... Our three boats deserve a hobie class start... its a hobie regatta after all and that is what the rules say.

Many dinghy clubs on the bay will run regattas with just two classes.. It makes it easy to manage the water and the property. Yacht clubs who host large annual regattas have to be careful to keep the action moving. eg multiple courses or clever management. The last one we attended, Rock Hall set a winward leeward course and had you finish up wind above the A mark ... then Cruise back to the start line. Certainly spread the boats out (two cat classes and 3 or 4 monohull classes). (kind of hard to P when you are single handed and have to keep moving...)

Mark

I really don't care what he sails. If another manufacturer doesn't make a product that fits with you want then that is fine. Sail what suits your needs. It's entirely different to accuse them of being greedy so-and-so's etc.

Tiger Mike

When you start to throw stones, don't be surprised when others come back with rocks. When you say that all CEO's are ripping every body off in every corporation - that is offensive. Don't play all innocent when it comes back to bite you.

I really don't care where you live or what you do - I just hope you are happy. I'm happy where I live and work hard to make a contribution to society managing several businesses and volunteer organizations. I'm sure my lifestyle would not suit you and that is fine but I love it and am very happy. You do what you do, don't crap on others who make different choices.

Tiger Mike

No worries. Time to go for a sail....

Tiger Mike

We get about a dozzen or so TheMightyHobie18's to our state titles every year. Maybe up to 20 at a nationals depending on the location. That is all that I can think of.

Tiger Mike

MIke, Enron is an example of just what thieving B....s corperates are. Give me a break, it is not your nonsense that backed me off it is how I view myself and how I like to present. I do not mean to denigrate the boats of others and I appologised for that but I don't slip into the stupid category either. In my time I have had six settlements from corporates, phone companies etc. I have taken them on myself and the only reason they have had to pay out settlements is that in general corperate attitude is theft by deciept and I am good at catching them.

Your self righteous offence and defence of corperate strategy is vacuous and pathetic because at no time was the finger pointed at you and or the work you do. You chose to be offened for all corporates and if you think average corporate behaviour is honest, you are naive.

I hope you are happy to Mike, but do you know what, I think you are too angry to be happy.

Good to hear a voice of reason, remember Hobie is making this decision based on boat sales and boat sales are what benefits cat sailing most, sailing snobbery against rotomoulded cats does not benifit cat sailing. Many of these boats go to resorts where even more people get to sail them.

I think catsailing will benifit more from two rotomoulded cat sales than one racing boat sale. Therefore concentrating your efforts on the higher selling models benefits not only your bottom line but the sport in general.

Gareth

Gareth,
You make a very good point.

Exposing new people to cat sailing in a pleaseant fun environment like a resort would have to be a good move
and leave a lasting positive impression of the sport.

Much better getting new sailors and expanding the sailing base than just moving the chairs around the deck of a sinking ship.

So it is quite reasonable to conclude that any company that can get cats into resorts is also helping grow the sport in general.

Regards,
Phill

Uhhh I hope we both realize that I wasn't trying to say that every corporation are model citizens. That said, even in Enron's case, it was a handful of very corrupt people who were in very powerful positions that bought the whole thing down. I'd suspect that more were involved than were actually charged however in the context of the company that handful tainted many thousands of honest people who worked hard, all for naught. Surely you don't think HC discontinuing the H20 places them in the Enron league.



I'm not offended for all corporates but I will defend myself when people make stupid statements to which I am part of the sub-set. As for corporate honesty - believe it or not - I have been around the block once or twice and even when I have had a run-in with another company (I think it's a fact of life with everybody from time to time), in all situations it has been a case of an honest screw up or lack of communication that is the root of the problem. I'd suggest that out and out dishonesty is actually quite rare.



Thanks for the diagnosis Mr Freud. Actually most people who know me personally (face to face) have a very different opinion. Thanks for the sentiment anyway - believe me - I am very content and I don't loose any sleep over being annoyed about anything.

Cheers,
Tiger Mike

The only 15 % race fallicy:

I have to disagree to some extent with the notion that the fact that only 15 % race means that the other 85 % who don't race carry much more weight in whole sailing scene.

We have personally found that even small but active race groups keep sailing clubs alive. Loose even such a 10 to 15 % group of active racers and the club will see a significant downturn and with it growth and boat sails.

It is like motor bike or automobile racing. Only 0.5 % of the cars build actually race once or more in their life span, STILL it is a major consideration to car builders. Why because it is all about product placing and public perception. Every recreational sailor and weekend warrior likes to reflect his own endeavours against those of the racing hero's.

At our clubs (I've been personal involved with two of them) we have found that club race day attracts alot more clubmembers then the racers themselfves. Other members know that something will be happening that day and that therefor a good size group will hang around the clubs how creating buzz that they enjoy participating in or interacting with. In fact there are more spectators then races on such a day and often they don't actually watch the racing but engage in conversations with others while enjoying a drink and generally have a good time.

In one club we lost this racing scene to mismanagement and surprisingly enough the "good fun" days were almost immediately gone. And interestingly enough in a club with about 100 boats on its parking for 15 to 20 years and an active club racing fleet of ONLY 10 boats, it collapsed to 50 to 60 boats in parking and no racing fleet within some 2 to 3 years. In effect is lost 40 to 50 boats when only 10 boats quite club racing. It has not recovered yet and probably won't soon.

At the club I'm at now similar things had happened a few years earlier and when I switch clubs, because I was an active club racer at the time, they had just initiated a major effort to bring back their club racing. Since then the club has done all right again and a few crews from 2 neighbouring clubs sail over on race day to join us on race day. Again the group is not big in its entirety. about 10-15 boats.

So never ever underestimate the footprint of 10-15 % of the cataraman scene or any sport. This is the group that is pulling the other 85 % along, they are the back bone that keeps the whole 100% standing up. Strike that down, because indeed this group requires alot of investment for meager returns, and you'll risk bringing the whole scene down.

Why ? Because this group are the active sailors, they are the volunteers, they are the guys who are always around at the club and on the water and welcome new sailors, take people out for test rides and maintain the presence on the net and in the local newspapers, they organise the events and maintain the permits.

The other 85 % of the scene, whether they are sailing glass or rotomoulded boats, are one lazy group of free riders that are absolutely NOT interested in organising anything or even being present/sailing for more then 5 times a year. When this group is left to their own devices then they will totally collapse within 2 to 3 years. Which in turn requires them to trailer their boats back home after each sail, which is again too much for most of this group and so they quit. Thus bringing down the scene with them, incl. the roto stuff sales. Irrespectibally of what happens at the resorts.

I've seen this happen in various forms.

This is just the devils deal one has to make as a company when doing boat building in the small boat sailing scene. You have to maintain the core group of 10-15 % of active sailors (=racers) or risk losing the whole 100 % of the privately owned boats (excl. the resorts). Doing this cost money and effort and there is simply no way around it. That is why alot of builders like to enter formula classes as here the investment in maintaining the active portions is shared over more then one pair of shoulders.

Wouter

Mike, you have put your point to me in a reasonable way. Thank you. I take it on board.
Hope you had a good sail.

Jesus! This is just getting stupid.

What's with all the level headed reasonable statements by Wouter.
Only one thing can take a guys edge off like that.
A women and then a kid.
Wouter,..What's her name and when are the kids coming?

TigerMike making personal attacks.... Check

pbessi making personal attacks.... Check

mbounds drinking the cool-aid pretty hard.... Still waiting

come on lets complete this Hobie thread guys.

Are you a PI attorney? The only things worse than corrupt companies are PI attorneys.

Yes thats the kind of level headed reasonable statement I have come to expect.

I don't know how your club operates but in the clubs I have been inolved in in the UK, all members have to help out and do duties. That inlcudes those that sail only 5 times a year. You have to understand that as peoples life priorities change (usually kids) we cannot all sail every weekend. And I don't think that the 15% (or whatever number it is) that race regularly are more important or do more to promote the sport than the 85% that don't.

Gareth

It is the same at our club and the other one I was a member of. However, these people just show up to a prearranged schedule and do their duty. The guys and gal organising the whole shabang, making the schedules, preparing the work etc are still mainly those 15 % of the whole group.

Wouter

Sorry to disappoint you Pat, but that isn't it.

Maybe it is just that my new career is agreeing with me alot better.

Wouter