Hi, I'm new here. Some background: I've spend years sailing a really old Hobie 16 with its original sails, and I fairly recently came back to the sport by buying an even older Nacra 5.2.

And when I say old, I mean old! The exact year is unknown, but it's one of those with no core in the hull, just a single layer of fiberglass. It originally had a center beam over the tramp apparently, but this has been removed before my time (and never replaced by anything? Maybe the black stuff I see between hull and beam is some kind of glue?). Also the sails are not as old as the boat, but pretty close <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. But hey, money is expensive and I didn't pay too much for it.

I'm having fun club racing this thing solo on handicap: I'm faster than the Dart 18s and the FX1s, on par with the Hobie 16s, but way slower than the F16s, Tornados and Hurricane 5.9. One leg I'm consistently slower than everybody however is the downwind one (before you ask: yes, I'm a proud owner of "cat racing for the 90's" and I know about tacking downwind). I've been passed by lowly RS400 and other Fireball on the downwind legs and that's definitely not good for my self-esteem. So I hatched this cunning plan: put a spi on this thing and fly a hull downwind (or capsize trying!).

Anyway, this boat has apparently been equipped with a spi at some point during its life, and there are some remnant of it:

- a 3.2 meter pole I found strapped to the trailer, with an small bracket under the mast on the front beam for it;
- a small block and a spinlock riveted to the beam on the right of the mast;
- a tang affixed on the mast with a pad eye 40cm higher

I recently acquired a used spi on eBay (17.5 m2, Hobie branded, apparently from a Hobie 16), ordered a snuffer (I was unable to find a used one, so I got a brand new one, the cheapest I was able to get was the same setup as used on a stealth 16), and asked a sailmaker to put three patches in my spi (still awaiting the quote on that one...).

Now, I'd like to point out I never flew an asymmetric kite before, so I have some questions for you all about how I go installing all this stuff.

First the pole: how do I attach this thing? Its aft side enter in a bracket and I'm just going to put a screw through it. Simple. Now which angle should I aim for the pole? As close as horizontal as I dare? Snug in the corner between the bridles (but it then is really high and looks funny!). How do I support the pole from coming down when sailing upwind, and support it from bending upward when loaded by the spi downwind? I'm concerned that the bridle attachments on the hull are really far back on this boat, and simply attaching a line from there to the pole end will not be enough... Is there anybody running a spi on a 5.2 willing to send me picture of its pole attachment?

Second, what to do on top of the mast. I'm going to put a small block on the upper padeye, but I'm a little lost on what to do with the tang. All the rotating mast/spi flying boats I looked at have some kind of loop from the mast track the spi halyard go through. Anybody go an idea about how to use a tang at the same position?

Third, lines and blocks: I need a bunch of line, and I'm cheap. Any suggestion for a halyard? For a sheet? For the pole bridles? Is there any place I could buy a big roll of cheap stuff to be used for everything or is it unrealistic? And what to use as ratchet blocks? The Harken ratchamatic look like the ticket, but those are not cheap (do you notice a pattern here? Yup, that's the word cheap!)...

And finally, where can I route the retrieval part of the halyard? The ideal route for the retrieval line when it exits the back of the bag is to continue under the tramp, but I can't find a good way to get it back on top without sharp turns. Going all the way to the back of the tramp to come back up via the lacing is not really practical, as there is a flap covering the lacing there... I though about drilling my way through the front beam, but it seems fairly extreme...

I know jake has put a spin on his 5.2 way back when. He might be able to help you.

I am not sure if I remember correctly but I seem to recall that the people in the know said to keep the fwd tip of the pole up to help keep the front of the boat up.

airborne

This sounds like a really fun project. I've helped a couple of people fit spinnakers onto old boats so here are my thoughts:

Pole height
Somewhere a little above horizontal should do the trick. Too low and you'll bury the pole under water in a stuff - which could break it. Eyeball a couple of modern boats (Tornados or F18s). This won't be absolutely critical to the performance of the boat.

Mid pole support
I'd tie the pole to the center of the bridle wires - putting just a little prebend into it. Don't try and lift it all the way up to the bridle wires. Put an eyestrap on the bottom of the pole and then route your line through this and around the pole a time or two.
You can then add bridle lines from the hull tangs to the same point on the pole - this will keep the pole firmly located. Use very low stretch line for all your bridles and lash around the pole using eyestraps to stop them sliding along the pole (but don't tie off direct to the eyestrap).

Mast tang
I'd suggest going with the system popular on tornados and F18s: An eyestrap up high on the mast with a low stretch line tied to this with the halyard block tied off at the end. Then a small low stretch line tied from one side of the mast track around the front of the mast and back into the other side will guide the first line (if you shackle the block to the first line, run the second line through the shackle). See attached drawing - hopefully it does a better job than my written description.

This second line is sets the spinnaker hoist height. You can arrive at this by trial and error - fit the pole, lay the boat on its side, roughly tie the spin to the mast, flip it back up and see how it looks. You want the luff taut, with perhaps a little halyard (no more than 6") between the block and the top of the spin). Obviously this is a job for a nice still day...

Line recommendations
One line will not do it all - different stretch and handling properties are required for the bridles, halyard and spin sheet.

Bridles - hi tech low stretch single braid. Vectran or Spectra
Halyard - low stretch double braid or a twelve strand single braid like swiftcord. No smaller than 5mm.
Sheet - Hand comfort is an important consideration. Lots of choices here. If you are going cheap then pick a line that won't soak up a bunch of water.

Blocks
The switched ratchet blocks are cheaper - but have to be turned off on every gybe (not practical for bouy racing). The ratchematics work like a charm. I'd suggest recycling some used blocks while you test the setup. Then if you want to stick with it, buy a set of auto ratcheting blocks.

Retrival halyard routing
Most systems I've seen come under the tramp and up through a grommet punched through the tramp about 12" back from the front cross beam. You can bolt a turning block to the tramp just behind this, using a disc of aluminum underneath to spread the load.

Don't blame that Franken mess on me...that happened after I sold it! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have been looking to fit my old 5.2 with a spin also, I have been doing some research but what sucks is that there are very few used spins around here that will fit.

Some alternatives :



On the several F16's we use a trick here. We just tie a loop in the upper part of this line and through it over the top of the mast. This loop then hangs off the mainsail hook fitting. You have to route your mainsail halyard over this loop but that is not a biggy. Several of us have been using this for several years now and it hold up great. Saves you drilling two more holes in your mast that can eventually leak. Make sure the loop is relatively large so it hangs downward off the hook fitting alongside the mast.




I use (and several others) 3 mm plain dyneema for all the support lines. 4 mm dyneema for the halyard/retrieveal line and some sort of swiftcord for the sheet line. But for the latter there are indeed alot of alternatives.



I think the grommet in the trampoline caused relatively alot of friction so I have stitches a small block underneath my trampoline just at the rear of the snuffer bag. Another block is attached on my port mainbeam just next to the opening between the hull, my trampoline and the mainbeam. Naturally I lead the retrieval line through these blocks and like that it passes from underneath my tramp to above my tramp. The partion above the tramp I lead through a large stainless steel ring that is tied to a bungee cord coming from the startboard rearbeam (more like a attachement point on the tramp near it). After the retrieval line run through that it goes straight the the cleat on my mainbeam. As such the retrieval line makes a large V on top of my trampoline. Works great.




Wouter

I have doubts about the suitability of your Hobie 16 spinnaker. I expect this spinnaker to be relatively short luffed and have a foot length that will not fit nicely on your pole-side stay distance.

Your mast height and pole-sidestay distance is far more inline with I-17's, FX-ones and F16's I would try to get a second spi off one of those crews. Hassle them if you have too, most want to buy a new spi if they can get a good price for their old spi.

Wouter

Gree,

try Chip Buck @ www.whirlwindsails.com

for custom made sails and spins, affordable too.

Hey i resemble that remark! The I17 spin is my weapon of choice for distance racing on the 5.2, and a slightly larger one for buoys!....

Wow! Thanks for all the constructive answers!

Regarding the attachment at the top of the mast, there are already an eyestrap and a tang on the mast, the tang is approximately where I would like the spinnaker head to be in the first place and the eyestrap sits 45cms higher. The issue is that the existing tang is in the way of a loop arrangement. My mast is mostly water tight, so I'd like to avoid removing the tang (4 holes to plug!)...

I was thinking about fixing a loose line between the eyestrap and the tang, with the halyard block attached to a knot almost at tang level. This would let the head of the sail drift to the side of the mast when rotated. I'm concerned about the halyard catching up on the tang during gybes however, impairing mast rotation...


Wouter, I like your retrieval line setup (and the excellent diagram). It's a good solution, going through the gap at the front side of the trampoline did not occur to me! What are the pitfalls of fixing a block to the underside of the tramp? How do I punch a hole through it without having the tramp self destruct the first time I pull on the retrieval line? Is there a how-to anywhere on how to sew such a thing?

Also, about this setup, I'm guessing that the shock cord is tensioned only when the spi is down, and slack when it's up to avoid putting pressure on the retrieval line? Am I right in assuming there is a 2 in one line pulling the spi tack in place giving you enough additional halyard line to relieve the shock cord pressure?




My spinnaker is not the small toy sail I've seen on some H16 in the US, it's a proper tri-radial asymmetric, I've measured the luff at 765cms, leech at 585cms and foot at 365cms. Frankly, it's so big it frighten me... I think with my mast at around 840cms (bottom tang is at 740cms) and with my pole being 320cms it should fit just fine. Assuming the pole is at a square angle of the mast this gives me a maximum luff length of around 8 metres; as the mast is slighly raked back and I'm going to run the pole a an angle smaller than 90 I think the 765 luff length is probably going to be close to ideal.

But you may be right about the pole/sidestay length, I may have to put the sheet blocks further back than the sidestays, I'll probably go to the aft beam to avoid drilling in my hulls.

Fearless rider, this thing is huge!

Nice radial mainsail, may I inquire where did you get it from and for what kind of price?

OK, now THAT I will take credit for. The main and jib were made by Calvert sails and I believe the Pentex main was about $1100 and the dacron jib about $500 - that was something like 5 years ago.

Got a Calvert main for my 6.0 a couple years ago. very nice

I actually have been planning to get my new sails from Whirlwind sails. I really like the sails that they make and the ones I have seen are amazing.

But for my first spinnaker I would rather not have a brand new one because I really don't know what i am doing.