As an owner of a "tank" Hobie-18 that has indeed withstood its share, and will probably withstand quite a bit more, I will gladly offer it in trade for an A-Cat whos owner may be afraid that his A-Cat is too fragile. Strictly in the interest of saving that sailor the pain, of course. I would gladly do this to help a fellow cat sailor.

Nice try.....!

Keith,



Nice spin!

Todd,

Thought you might like it! I think it might yearn for the days of hauling a lighter boat (your 6.0) around though!



Keith

Not sure I would want his........Sounds like its been through hell.



Sorry.............I couldn't resist



Mike

To add something to the A cat strength debate...



I have just finished fixing an A cat that was dragged along the road at 60mph on a 45 degree angle (heap big crosswind!). There was another boat loaded on top so the hull took the whole impact with combined inertia of the trailer and other boat making things worse. See attached photo.



Structurally the boat is fine (and emotionally is much better off than the owner was!) - including the beam pads and bolts, and even x-rays of the carbon beams show no damage



All that happened was the road wore a 6" streak thru the hull, from the centrecase to the transom (the boat was towing backwards). I have plenty of experience and have seem many prangs and I don't know of any boat that would have survived in any better shape - but I know plenty that would have turned to dust.



I have photos for the ghoulish amongst you.



I live in NZ and have never seen an FX-1 but that's my $0.02 worth.

Attachment didn't work - try again



sm

Youch.



I'm glad my boat weights 350 now.

Hi again 49er,



So according to the TEXEL site: http://www.texelrating.knwv.nl/



The FX-1 no-spin is 324 lbs and the Nacra 5.5SL is 381 lbs

That's 57lbs lighter, which would explain my perception of it feeling lighter on the beach. (The 5.5Sl is a fantastic boat too, so please don't attack me 5.5SL owners).



That sounds believable to me. Though slightly disappointing, I'm still happy with the weight and quality of the boat.

I would certainly consider owning an A-Class also, and don't understand the opposition to it in this thread. I purchased the FX-1 for my own reasons, as anyone should. (mainly the two-person capability in all conditions).

Thanks for all your help and accurate information provided so far!



Steve

To tell you the truth I do not know what to believe anymore. Some people say to ask the sailor about the boat yet many sailors are so biased and full of it you can’t get the truth, then some people say don’t believe the manufacturer, so who in the heck do you believe. I admit the only A-Cats I have seen are pre-1998, but heck, that is only few years ago. One A-Cat had visible dents in the hulls the other had a long crack down the middle on the top of the hull. With all the new cats coming out each year its getting really hard even to decide what boat to sail and if it will be around next year as a class or product. Seems me to the hobie 16 sailors have the best off it all. I saw Texel report of a hobie 16 placing second in this event. Besides the hobie 16 is there a class to get into, maybe the Tiger, but then again 18HT looks exciting, then again Rick White on a Wave with a hooter beats them all if I read it right. Its all very confusing, yet interesting!

You are right about the dents, my A Class has several. I guess any boat with a foam core will dent - I have owned several Marstrom Tornadoes - they are very strong but still dent - particularly when new. If you don't want dents, I guess you get a boat which is solid glass.



With matching gel coat (or paint for the Marstrom) you can patch them quite easily and invisibly. But I agree it is a pain.



I am not an expert on non-foam core boats so can only guess that something like an H16 or similar construction would be less prone to dents. It all comes down to priorities - if you want a high tech racer, development class, don't expect to run it into things without dents/damage.



If you want low maintenance, there are many classes which will be - although perhaps at a cost of some weight (which is where we came in with this thread??????)



But overall, my A Class is structurally a very strong boat, as demonstrated above, as is my Tornado. Just got to be careful around beaches, rocks and the compeition. And I wouldn't trade either of them for some of the more bulletproof boats.

I can tell you all from private experience that the Hobie name doesn't give the FX-one and Tiger more resistance to denting.



I'm sure that H16 and P16 and other full glass don't dent but than again the only way these boats can arrive in the top places is by handicap corrections. That is what happened at Texel. The boat itself came in some 25 minutes behind the leader, but it corrected out to a top 10 placing. Any rating system that is any good would do that as it aims to make the crew ability independent of the boat design (speed)



Lets face it all new boats are foam core and all new boats suffer from denting; no exeption and totally independent wether they are called Nacra, Hobie or Bimare.



Wouter

I and a couple of of other sailors have had good results "blowing" dents out with a heat gun. You MUST be patient and not stick the gun too close to the hull. The heat expands the air in the foam core and the glass,carbon or kevlar move back into their original position.



I have seen shallow dents disappear and deep, almost puncture dents become unnoticeable.



My Mikan was much more prone to denting. It had carbon/carbon construction. The new Auscat Mk 5 has carbon and kevlar and seems to be much more resistent to denting. It even "feels" more solid.



What I don't understand is why there is such a large gap in weight of an A Class and a FX-1 or I-17. It seems that Hobie and Performance could make a killing if they built their boats at the 200 lbs mark. They might then enjoy both a one design status and maybe even a Category II A Class status. Think about it...Beef up an A Class so you can take a friend out once in awhile and also so it can take some abuse. But not so much that it weighs over 250 lbs.



Dave Carlson used to race his wooden Catnip A Class at 200 lbs. That boat did suprisingly well against our high tech 165 lb boats and always beat the Hobie 18s. It had a heavy aluminum mast that weighed over 40 lbs. But it showed that a moderately light boat can still have pretty good performance.

Bingo! Rob, You've hit the nail right on the head.



Why don't "they" build a boat as you described? I would love a Category II A-Class that is a production boat with the ability for an occasional passenger. No wood, but good quality lay-up, vacuum bagging etc. Doesn't even need to have exotic materials anywhere. (Well maybe a Caron mast, where the biggest performance and on-the-beach set-up advantage could be had) I'd be first on line to buy it.



Kind of reminds me of an old saying:

"This is a country where any honest, intelligent, hard-working person can become president isn't it? Then why doesn't one?"

Just a point of info. The hobie 16 is a foam cored boat.So is the prindle.



Mike

What a new idea. Why didn't anybody (like for example the F16 class) , think of this ? !



Ohh, we DID !



We're just not 17 ft long. That is the only difference. But the again the difference is only 9 and a halve inches.





Wouter

Hello Surf



All of the boats that you are considering are great boats and match their niche pretty well. You are comparing apples to oranges. There is NO perfect boat that does it all. Your problem is that you need to decide what kind of sailing you want to do right now and how long you would plan to keep the boat coupled with what kind of depreciation you can accept.



I suggest that you start with a decent used boat that suits your needs and sail it for a year. You will have a much better idea of what you are looking for then. You won't loose too much cash when you sell.... Also... your preferences will mature and evolve over time (that's what boat shows are all about). (your wife may LOVE to sail and that A cat just won't cut it... unless you plan to purchase two of them)



Remember, your first boat will suffer your growing pains. You will screw up and thrash the boat... As your skill improves...the boat will take less of a beating.



I always recomend that new cat sailors start with a 16 or 18 foot boat and then work up if you want more performance. Every sailor knows of somebody who purchased a performance boat that was WAY over their ability to handle it. The sea is unforgiving and won't care that you are just learning. Frequently, they have a bad to terrible experience, live through it and never sail the boat again.



Take Care

Mark

I knew, or at least thought, you would respond with that. I was looking at pictures of the Taipan 4.9 at the Wildcat Regatta (http://www.floridamultihullsailor.com/wildcat02/wildcat02_p1.htm) and frequently confused it for an A Class. Not until I looked closer could I tell that it was a 4.9 uni. They are nice looking boats.



But the point is, why don't Hobie and Performance build one? There is a market for the A Class and, according to them, a market for the I-17 and FX-1 or they wouldn't be producing them. For those who bought an FX-1 or I-17 or 5.5 uni, why not a Taipan 4.9 or other F16?



If an I-17 weighed 200 lbs, I might own one of those instead of my A Class.



OK...now for a little side track....Just think about this....there are 20 year old Hobies out there sailing. What a stupid idea from a manufacturers standpoint. Cars are built to wear out faster than a Hobie Cat. If Hobies lasted only 10 years (still a long time) think how many more boats they could sell, replacing the boats that are over 10 years old. Are they "missing the boat"?



Lastly, although the idea of making a living building sailboats sounds cool, let's face it. We cat sailors are all a little flakey. We say we would really like X, but vote with our wallets when we buy Y. I prefer to make my living in something a little less volatile, like software development (bwaaa haaa haaa).

....well, you made my day,...to know that I can drag my I-17 up the beach at 350+lbs ( I use boat bumpers as rollers)....ha!....mon, I be a strong island boy!



....for what it is worth,..I have helped fellow I-20 owners roll their 395 lb boat up the same beach,.........if the I-17 is 350+,...then the I-20 has to be double that, ..at lear,...so that would put the I-20 in the 600 lb + range.....



...I am not doubting anyone here,....i am just questioning it.....



....I figure my I-17 normal( metal mast) , hull # 50 , year 2000 model,...to be 310-ish....thisis what my back tells me.



Bruce

St. Croix





ps,..helped move a new FX-1,....boat is definately light than my boat...

I am looking closely at the 18HT, I think that is what you call it. I like the 4.9 but getting something a little bigger with a little more hull volume would be nice. I have to admit the Tiger looks good and seems to have a good following. I thought it would be great if there was a Tiger HT. So maybe a cross between a 18HT and A-Cat, with just a little more durability. As for boats breaking down in 10 years, I really do not like that idea.



Oh yes, Wouter didn’t the Hobie 16 do well to get second even on corrected time and if I understand it the Hobie 16 along with other Hobie 16’s still finished impressively among much larger cats. Finishing 25 minutes back from Formula 18 and 20 ft cats is still impressive to me for a 30 year old surf cat. I have to admit I have watched a few Hobie 16 races in California and was impressed with their skill and fun factor. There is room in the world for the Hobie 16 group, obviously.



I would think a 18HT would be a well balanced boat for small or big sailors, just seems to be a bright spot in a maze of cat choices. I have seen a 4.9 up close but there was also an A-Cat and other formula 18 cats there and thought an 18 ft cat would be better. I haven’t seen a 18HT, but I think it is a great idea and what you all are wanting maybe, but I wonder if these 18HT can be solo sailed easily.



Thanks for your comments and not bashing me, just trying to figure this stuff out.