I was just thinking, we singlehand sailors actually have something good going on here. When we F17 sailors bought our boats, we were hoping for a large fleet of them. Then the F16's and the A's took away lots of would be F17 sailors so naturally we were disappointed. BUT, Juana's has changed things a bit I think. You F16 guys know what you need to win and will probably be making a few changes. Others, will see the F17 for what it is..............a really fast, well engineered boat. All this adds up to lots of competition. I'm thinking these boats will be sparing with one another for years. Future singlehanders will just have to decide which boat is for them.

I'll put it this way since we've been talking movies over on the F16 site.......

From "The Right Stuff"

We gotta stick together on this deal guys.....

Also, one singlehander telling another singlehander that he's on a Uni because no one will sail with him.............well, it just doesn't work.

I sure would like to be about 6,000 miles away like our good buddy Wouter. That DUDE can say anything and doesn't have back it up. Hey Wouter, I think your new name should be ........THE DUDE!!

I agree... the comment about being a uni because no one will sail with them was just a thought. Works the other way too... someone being a uni because they don't want to sail with someone else. Guess the meaning is different though. The comment about no one wanting to sail with a uni sailor was not necessarily directed at anyone.
I agree with your premise that singlehanders should try to stick together.
I just wish Bob weren't so enigmatic in an attempt to bait us so often.

As far as backing things up... not everyone who posts here portrays themselves as sailors who know everything about how to sail. I know I sure as heck don't know everything and I don't think I come across as such. I like the talk and sharing of ideas.

Me calling Wouter THE DUDE has to do with him bringing up that goofy movie in the middle of our Apocalypse Now/Heart of Darkness discussion over on the F16 forum.

Bob..... you going to send me the email or is it a big secret?????

I'll tell ya... Bob kicked our collective F16 butts at Juana's, but... he beat every other boat there too. It did not matter if it was PN of 57 or PN of 59, he killed us all. Some on elapsed time and some on corrected time - but I bet he was miles ahead on corrected time.

I take his criticism as advice and will work to improve. It is not his fault he is damn good. He's worked hard and he deserves to be a "little" bit arrogant (Bob, please try to contain it). He is a gracious competitor but an butt of online poster, hahahahahahaha.... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

?

As I have always done since the beginning, I actually favour putting the F16's and F17's into one racing fleet and race first in wins. That will make us all better sailors and the difference between these boats is too small to matter much anyway.

I also believe that all F16's sailors and boat designs should not be afraid to measure themselves against the best, that includes the best I-17 sailors like Bachelor, Strubble and Curry. I don't believe that losing out to these sailors will cost us much sales at all. And I dislike the attitude of staying away from the other boats and sailors just to maintain an reputation.

I always wanted the F16's and the F16 class to have a "can do" mentallity and actively work against the splintering of the catamaran scene. This means not being afraid to take on anything, including I-20's, and activily seek to race as many other boats as possible by combining starts and fleets.

Personally I'm already thrilled at 2 sailors who have had their F16's now for about a year manage to give mr Curry a right challenge on the down wind legs. Next stop, working to do the same on the upwind legs. More fun for everybody.




I think so, otherwise we'll see to many sailors end up trying to sail a 29-er singlehandedly.

Wouter

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Ohh, I thought you had been talking about me there for a moment ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

One reason for Bobs continued success is the amount of time he spends on the water. I am a member of the same sailing club that Bob belongs to and also live on the water on the Bay that he sails on so I get to watch the sailing activity daily. I cant tell you how many times the last 2 summers Bob would rig his F17 and go out and practice for hours . Never just daysailing to the local beach hangout but out for hours at a time going upwind and back down nailing down his boat handling and tuning to the conditions. Catching up with him on the beach derigging his boat and he would always share what he learned that day and how his latest rigging idea was working out. I have sailed here in town around the likes of Randy Smyth,Brian Lambert,Kirk Newkirk, and the late Carlton Tucker for over 30 years and have never seen any of those guys apply the dedicated training that Bob does (exception being Randy when he was doing T boat campaigns in the 80s).So along with Bobs talent for going fast(er) is the huge committment to do what it takes to get there. My hats off to Bob for just that, he puts in major effort to achieve success.

Well, that would explain a few things. I wasn't going to share this since I was the biggest loser. (sounds like a good name for a TV show!) But anyway here goes.

I had an F17 before the Bobster. So when he got his, we sailed together to train. My idea of sailing back then was to set the boat up and then relax. To me, it's beer time! Well, after meeting up with Bob at 0800 and sometimes doing windward /leewards til 6:00pm I learned that if I am going to do this, there will be no drinking after setup. I mean after we would finish for the day, I'd hit the beach, get off the boat, and put a hand on each knee.........like a guy that just ran 10 miles.

Anyway, needless to say, I won't be drinking at all(ahh............on the boat that is!) when I get my next F17. Another thing before I get to my story, After a few of these practice sessions, we would sail upwind for a few miles. It was really fun except that the Master Uni Fad guy would be on the windward side of the Sound, and I would be on the leeward side! Not fun. But gradually he would give me hints here and there and before you knew it, I was an awesome sailor that on an upwind run was only half way across the sound when we hit the windward end. Gradually though, I did get close enough whereby you could take a picture with a wide angle lense, and we would both be in it at the upwind mark. Then Bob liked to say...

" Who's your DADDY? I'm thinking what the hell? Yeah, so we do it again, and again he's like Who's your DADDY? I'm thinking Mr. Thomm225 Sr?? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> My point is you F16 guys need to develop a thicker skin when dealing with the Fad guy. He likes to joke around somewhat.......HE thinks it's funny! NOT when you're the guy getting his butt kicked!! Anyway, I got tons faster.

Okay here's the story, (hopefully I can get this right although I'm a little fueled up! Yeah, I like to have a few beers after a 50 mile bike ride!)

At Performance Midwinters in 2005, there was a really light turn out. I think the N20 guys had something going on the whole week. So in our division(singlehanders) there were only three F17's. Me, Bobster and some " new" guy I didn't know. Anyway, the new guy turned out to be some Nat's Champ from back in the day when there would be like 60 boats on the line. (but I didn't know that at the time) First race 2-5 knot winds everyone finishes relatively close in our group. Then the wind picks up, and I cannot even enjoy my beer during the wait between races.

2nd races starts, and the " new" dude is out pointing me and Bob but Bob doesn't know it yet since he beat both of us off the line. I'm like F#@K! All this work, and I can't point with the "new" guy. Anyway, I get pissed off and head to the beach. Normally, I can take an butt whuppin like a man, but on this day I had had it. A few minutes later the Bobster comes in during the break between races and switches rudders. It didn't help as I would learn later. If I have this right, the Fad guy used things like good starts, tacking in favorable spots especially up near " A" mark which was really being affected by the land breeze from some of the newer condos. The point is Master Uni Fad still won even though that "New!?" dude could point better.

Who's Your Daddy F16 guy's?? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Tom

Future F17 guy (I think the # is 137)

Hey Thomm225:
What does the F stand for in F17?

Honest to God Tom just wrote down these exact words, in this order.





Do you think that there is a hidden message in there somewhere ?

Afterall, he is also referring to mr Curry as "MASTER unirig guy" all the time.

Wouter

I have always wanted a situation like that- training against another boat the same as mine. I sailed A LOT in July but it was always alone and sometimes the discipline to continue pushing yourself doing tacks etc lapses. I would have loved to get together with you and sail before I left even though it would have been on different boats... but oh well. I think the N17R and F16 are probably two of the more equal boats out there.
The problem with the "who's your daddy" mentality is that it doesn't translate well on the forum - especially if you don't know the guy.
I surrender. The whole concept of beating your chest a bunch because you win which just irritates the lesser of us... it would be great if Bob would share some of his hints ABOUT pointing rather than pointing out who is the "lesser of us."

Wouter, looks like you deleted a whole paragraph to make your point. Seems like you are into the Hershey Bar thing. Well, I'm not.

Anyway, my point was that through hard work you can improve. Doesn't matter whether your boat weighs 240lb's or 315!! As a matter of fact, when we used to do those long practice runs, I out weighed the Master Uni Fad guy by 15 to 20 pounds plus my boat was a bit older and heavier.(no carbo blocks, etc)But on light wind days, I could stay with him. When the wind came up, I couldn't.

As far as what letter is in front of the number 17, I'm not sure if that makes any difference. People are usually wanting to know what type of Hobie I sail anyway. And when I say NACRA, they are like what??. So I just say that I'm thinking about getting another catamaran.

Another thing, Wouter's 5 page rants on sail theory etc are not really that helpful as some folks keep saying. It appears to do nothing more than confuse an already confused group. You actually have to learn a bit at the time, and not just in the "classroom!" That's why they have labs at most colleges. Yes, you have to get out on the water. Plus, if a new sailor were told everything at once, he wouldn't be able to grasp it all anyway.

Here is the sad part, everytime we get close to becoming a solid group someone gets mad. People shouldn't take offense so easily. I think most people like to celebrate when they win. Anybody ever watch football, baseball, golf or tennis? All these folks celebrate sometimes for something as simple as a good catch or volley.

Hey, I haven't heard a whole lot about boat weight lately until I brought it up. Interesting. You mean sailing may actually have something to do with THE DUDE driving the boat?

One other thing, it's not magic. Bob didn't win all the races at Nationals so don't get to thinking it's just the one guy that's fast on the F17.

Tom

Tom,

You F17 guys need to grow a thicker skin !

It was just a joke.

Wouter

(remember that advice, you liked to dispense it yourself)

That is right mr Curry scored 4 points in a 3 boat fleet (= a OCS, DNS, DSQ or DNF) in the 3rd race.

As such he didn't win that race because "he wasn't in it"; he did win all the other races, though.





Your statement suggests a wholely different situation. I appears that the Gonzales method to truth telling is gethering a following.

Wouter

Actually, you have backed up my statement. I dropped out on the second race just like I said. You must go back and reread my rant. Hey, it's almost as long as one of yours.

Also, like I have told lots of the guys around here, this is a good example of why I am a cyclist and runner these days. When you don't start sailing until age 38 and are self taught like I am, you WILL have your bad days on the water as Wouter's post shows especially if the only guys sailing in your division are past Nationals Champions. Hey, where's my third place trophy??

Tom

ps. Just be happy that second place dude was not at Juana's........THAT would have made things look that much worse for the F16 crowd!

More results http://www.crawsailing.org/regattas/Recaps/Lighthouse2007results.htm
4 F17s & 2 F16 attended this regatta

Post deleted by Tikipete

Pete. W T F.

What!?