Back and forth...Round and Round...We need Rick to set up one of the fixed threads at the top of the F12 Page called specifications that only Luiz can post on (if he in fact is going to be the overseer on the F12) As the parameters are fixed, Luiz can post them on that "fixed" thread rather than beat these issues to death (on multiple threads)...come to a consensus...and then have some one who is not up to speed on all the discussions bring everything back to square one and start it all over again. That way everyone knows the fixed parameters.

To take this a step farther for the sake of organization, separate discussion threads should be started dealing with just one design issue. My suggestions would be (1) Hull Design (2) Rig Design (3) Sail Design (4) Rudder Design (5) Skeg/Centerboard/Daggerboard design. I admit there would be some issues that would bleed into one or more categories. If we kept things pertaining to one issue in their respective categories it would be easier to keep track and would eliminate much of the redundancy.

Wouter...This is not meant to ignore, negate, or diminish any of the work you have done on this project...I know you have done a complete description on your own web site representing your interpretation of the F12 (along with the ideas of many others)...however this forum appears to be the focal point of development and as such, it is necessary to establish a written record of things here which represent the agreed parameters of all contributors.

Best Regards,
Bob

Absolutely support that. I'm doing my best to keep up with what's going on but I do find myself struggling to know what's in and what's out.

Grob,

I agree with you on the different size rig.

It is always possible to fit a boat designed for larger weight and forces with a small rig. The boat will largely remain well behaved.

I'm indeed willing and interested to explore this tangent further.

Wouter

Seeker,

No offense or whatever taken by your comments I think they are excellent discussions. I remember having done the same for F16's in the beginning. For some reason it never occured to me to do it here again. Definately my dumb mistake, I should have known better.

Excellent idea's therefor.

Luiz, you want to run with this ?

Wouter

I just found another old attempt at a 12 footer, Canadian this time. It's a Mystere 3.7 skeg boat, 12 feet long, 6'6" wide, 19 foot stayed mast with single trap line, 190 pounds, 8.5 m2 sail area (but it has a jib).

The reason I'm interested in this is because I've owned a few Mysteres but better yet I just found one of these rare boats for sale! If I can "steal" it for few hundred bucks I'll grab it this weekend and have my 7 year old be the judge. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

EDIT: I just saw this boat and a salvage guy has it. Good sail, tramp, and straight mast but the rudders are lost. I just happen to have a set of M 4.3 rudders and castings. He wants $125 USD. Hmmmmm...I'll offer $95. My wife will kill me but it's gotta happen!

Mystere 3.7

Bloomin heck, to my untrained eye that looks like Wouters lines on his original design. Put the modern rig with light mast and I'd have that now.
regards

Ok - it is good to keep it ordered.

We had our Lobster Regatta this weekend 15km in 20-30knotts on a downhill run and had a 15yr old complete it on a 14ft Sundance. While I was screaming 3 to 4 km out to sea and back in he went straight downhill and wasn't that far behind my "A" really. But when he got to our rounding mark to do the last Km he couldn't get it to go up wind without centreboards, he was blown on to the beach where he dragged it upwind in the surf to complete the course. I give him a big tick for courage and am now totally sold on centreboards.
regards