Hey all,

sadly we could (a little bit) expect the dutch representative to vote for classes he's professionally involved in (dinghies: Volvo Talent Plan).

But lets face the real problem, IOC and ISAF are mainly looking for boatclasses that are available to the general public (and thus tv), and that are particularly available to the young sailor.

If a young student has to choose between a $5.000 dinghy and a $40.000 Tornado to get involoved in racing, the choice is easily made. And how many people do sail a Tornado for fun? What's the percentage of Tornado boats compared to all multihulls ?

I think we have been sleeping too long.
Let's put our efforts in designing a new, relatively low cost multihull class and line up for the 2016 Olympics.

Cheers
Maarten
F18 - Hobie Tiger & 30 year old Reg White Tornado

Martenn.. your argument is a big red herring.

This vote was for the disipline...

The next round could have chosen ANY multihull in the world.

The cost of the Tornado is a red herring... the culture of the elite Tornado class... red herring.. the political skill of the ITA president... red herring. the noise made by the US and UK rank and file which was objectionable to some... red herring.

I would believe.. the dutch guy voted for his personal fav classes..

I would also believe he voted for classes that you had a shot at a medal... That is what the US did... the powers that be ALSO thought they got more money out of star and monohull sailors then out of cat sailors. (a fact that I am certain is true)

With dinghy in the Olympics costs $5.000 or less ?

Do you realize that the 49er actually costs more then a F18's ?

Why are they in and multis out ?

Wouter

>If a young student has to choose between a $5.000 dinghy and a $40.000 Tornado to get involoved in racing, the choice is easily made. And how many people do sail a Tornado for fun? What's the percentage of Tornado boats compared to all multihulls ?<

The keelboat, the "Star" costs more than a Tornado. What's the percentage in Stars?

How many women in the USA actively "match race" a keel boat?

It seems redundant to have a Laser and Finn in the Olympics.
I'm sure Robert Schiedt could win in both. (8 time Laser World Champion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Scheidt)
Ben Ainslie could not beat Schiedt in Laser Class so went over to Finn, and became WC.

Clearly, ISAF has no vision of the future of performance sailing.

Everybody is talking about multi's. In the Olympics we are talking about the Tornado. There's heck of a difference between a F18 and a Tornado.
So if you're talking and hoping for (as I do) replacing the Tornado with a cheaper, much more accessible multihull then you have to realize that such a replacement takes time. What's the alternative for the Tornado, what are the conditions the IOC/ISAF will use is case of such a replacement?

Regards

Maarten

So why would a F18 or even Hobie 16 be cheaper to run in a Olympic campaign than a Tornado??

NONE. Because ISAF has ruled out the ENTIRE MULTIHULL CLASS.

Unfortunately too many clubs have more Stars than Tornados. The Iate Clube do Rio de Janeiro (largest in Brazil) has from 20 to 30 Stars (I never stopped to count) raced on a regular basis - but only two Tornados and two 49ers - that are raced two or three times a year.

At least two US women match racing teams competed in Brazil last week. Those are the best ranked, but I am sure there are others among ocean racers.

I couldn't agree more with your words about the Laser and Finn. Ainslie can't win Scheidt, so he went to the Finn. But Ainslie is a UK national and "UK rules..." - so the Finn HAS to stay. And since his 'enemy' left the Laser, it can stay too. Now that Scheidt is sailing Stars, Brazilians were afraid it would be excluded... so they'd accept any deal to keep it - more or less the same situation as the Canadians.

The 470, Finn and Laser are all outdated and about everybody (but those few sailing current Olympic "equipment") is unhappy with the situation. As I see it, today there are only two equipments in the Olympics: monohulls and windsurfers.

"Equipment" by definition shoud not specify crew gender, crew weight, race format or subdivisions within a given equipment. "Equipments" are kites, windsurfers, monohulls, multihulls and foilers. Everything else are class specifications and should come with the class choice. There's a better text about this point in Rohan Veal's website - and I like the logic of this argument.

I guess those who voted the multihulls out will become more and more uncomfortable now that criticism comes from about everywhere. Has anyone heard any reasonable defense to ISAF's action?

Still, it is time to stop complaining/discussing and start coming up with new ideas for the short, medium and long term actions. Anyone?

As is usual with multihull sailors, lots of huff and puff and no action. This discussion has run out of steam with no serious interest in resolution submissions. Just a lot of winging and wining and no action. It's the reason we mostly are ignored and rightly so IMHO. Except for a very small minority, ALL we are interested in is turning up to a regatta to race, drink some pi$$, and bugger off home. Most regatta entrants here in Oz show little gratitude for the time and effort put in by the VOLUNTEER organisers, and most don't even bother to stay for the presentation. As the prizes are being given out, the speeches by the prize winners are drowned out by the last of the boats leaving to go home. It makes me sick.
Our club is the same, arrive, sail, pack up and pi$$ off! My wife and I stay to watch the sun go down with a glass of Chard and some prawns, but mostly we are sitting there on our own.

We have TWO ONLY dedicated cat clubs here in the whole of OZ. With the thousands of K's of beautiful lakes and coastline we have, there is just TWO cat clubs! And they struggle even though one is in Sydney, the largest city in Oz. Clubs have closed all over the place due to a lack of support. Recreation in Oz is like a dirty word. Most lakes and waterways generally are unused for recreation. There's no support for any attempt to get youth involved in cat sailing here. I've tried and been completely and totally ignored. Everyone is driven by materialism and personal gain, community is almost defunct. All very sad but true.

Good luck trying to get cat sailors interested/involved in anything other than a quick race on Saydy afternoon and a tinny.

The ISAF Olympic decision is a problem because it removes the structure for THE elite level of catamaran sailing (Tornado Olympic Sailing). Every other organizational aspect of sailing is the same today as yesterday. Same volunteers, same initiatives being worked on etc etc. So, a deep breath is needed... because the job is ONLY to replace the elite level of catamaran racing.

Certainly, F18's, A class, and Hobie 16 class world events are important but a quick look at the standings lets you know how important having that ELITE level of competition operating above these three excellent catamaran classes actually is. The elite sailors drive our particular favorite class's level of competition. Those are the names that we recognize and relish the opportunity to measure ourselves against.! What other sport gets you on the field with the best of the world!

It seems to me, that we should take this opportunity to create a NEW Structure for THE ELITE level of the sport of catamaran racing... We should not want to elevate the F18 to replace the Tornado because the slow thinkers of ISAF would have no more skill at running this level then they have with the T class.

Trashing the existing organizations is shortsighted. Our efforts should be directed to creating a new structure for the elite level of catamaran racing. Previously, these efforts were limited because the ISAF Olympic level trumped every initiative. ISAF gave up on one of their ONLY visually exciting assets. We need to take this opportunity, develop a consensus world wide and go for it!

I know the US sailors will scream... but consider Mike Worrel and the Worrell 1000 race... I would bet that more US sailors knew about that race then could tell you about the Olympic team and how they did every four years. (Of course the caution is to make sure that we build a legitimate organization to make this elite level happen with integrity and excellence as it’s benchmarks.

Pipe down Mate!
While beach catamarans are more popular as leisure/fun sailboats compared to trailererable and affordable monos, the guys that sail at the Olympic level multihull are just as serious as the mono sailors. Yes, it is a smaller group of sailors but why eliminate them from competing? Is it pure politics? What is the motivation to drop cats from the program? The dinghys don't provide any more action than cats do.
I think it is just the elitest attitude of the mono sailors in charge that is "back door politicing" to have their way.

I have seen dinghy sailing on T.V. I would rather watch fishing.
My .02 cents

Berny,

there is plenty happening in the background as we speak to sort the issue.

So stay tuned for developments and be ready to do what you can when the time comes.

We need to have a unified and strong showing when we go to ISAF with our concerns.

This is the real issue at stake here. Furthermore there is a great deal of truth to it.

Totally agree here. Well said.

While you may not see or hear about much happening today or the next few days, rest assured, there is a lot happening. The vocalized emotions are subsiding a little but there is a lot of energy being directed to fix this thing across the world right now - it's just barely below the surface for the time being.

Hold on.. lets not use that broad a brush.. Its not just cats that have declined.. I recall mirror trainers having A,B,C & D division racing on a Saturday!! With fleets of 30+ in each division.. Try and find a fleet of 6 and your pushing it today!!..

Clubs that are only cats? Did you count the Cat club at woodman point Western Australia? It hosted a world T title back in the 90s.. However Nedlands YC, Shelly YC, Maylands YC, Whitfords, mullaloo YC, And most regional YCs in WA have at least one cat racing to my knowledge.. Including the Cruising YC at Rockingham!!

The big IRC clubs have only cruising cats and tris no racing.. These are however the bulk of the cash in racing in WA... They are the ones with the royal warrants.. Have the cash from pen fees.. 500 pens at $3000+ a year soon adds up.. Then add the bar contribution which is set as well..

As for the Sydney scene.. I recall in the 70s sailing at a club on sydney harbour.. 3000 members 300 involved or related to sailing (dad/mum/uncle of a junior sailor counts!).. Rest involved in the drinks and pokies.. So nothing has changed..

Today kids have other unfortunately "sicker" distractions..

BTW Nedlands YC is still IMHO one of the great sailing venues.. It has enough grassed area to rig a world T championship and a world A title at the same time.... Would be brilliant for a F16 Title!!

While ever we continue to put our fate in the hands of mono sailors, we can expect nothing short of what we are experiencing. And given my comments/feelings above, [a result of many, many years involvement in cat racing] I have little confidence in anything changing anytime in the near future, however, nothing would make me happier than to be proved wrong! But, you'd need to have experienced the apathy, even worse, the absolute complete disregard, the resentment and even disdain shown to anyone who doesn't sail/campaign/design and/or build cats of 16ft LOA or bigger in Australia and in I'm guessing, most of the rest of the world too it seems.

I remember the first time I turned up with a 14ft boat to an open cat regatta. When I requested help to lift my boat off the trailer the guy said, "got any spare gloves?", the inference being that he really didn't want to touch something so un-cool as my 14ft thing. That says it all really. Daryl is experiencing exactly the same indignation with his AO 14, and to add insult to injury, there's now talk of designing and building yet another entry level cat for Australia. Thousands of dollars and time spent/wasted trying to do something constructive at entry level for catamarans. It beggars belief that people could be so unsupportive, so un-cooperative so completely dismissive and short sighted.

And you want to know why things are so bad?

Monohulls will kick our ar$e all day and night and it's no wonder the way we behave. While we completely ignore our juniors, they have massive campaigns to introduce youth sailors to their boats. We have almost zilch and anything we do have is treated as I have already outlined above.

You still want to know why the $hit has hit the fan, really????

Yes I'm passionate, who wouldn't be?

P.S. Now that most all of the big cats have spinnakers, our biggest cat regatta has decided to run only windward / leeward courses which means smaller, kiteless cats are even more disadvantaged than they would otherwise be. And the grapevine suggests they will again withdraw their support for that regatta.

http://www.rohanveal.com/

haha, another argument well put. If sailing is being pressured by IOC because it is boring, why aren't other events being culled? Hello, synchronised swimming!!!

BTW, Leslie has pointed out to me that I may have unwittingly left out a piece of information some may consider important here. Donations and sponsorships along with monies from the USOC are the only sources of funding that the Olympic team receives. So the decision to favor the multihulls on the basis that they are more likely to attract donations should be seen in that light.

That said, I don't believe this provides any justification whatsoever for disenfranchising an entire discipline, nor for the lack of transparency in the process.

Someone saw the decline in cat sailing coming YEARS ago: