Quote:
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From Yachting Australia

"However much we might disagree, if we felt the decision had been properly considered and made with those around the table fully understanding the implications, we would accept it. Obviously we don't consider that this is the case.


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So these people are making decisions with far reaching worldwide implications without understanding what they are doing ? Think about this for a while ........ Read it again..... I would not allow people, who don't know what they are doing and/or who are without a proper vision on the field they are dealing with, or who are unable to take proper decisions, even to clean my toilet. It is a devastating conclusion that Yachting Australia presents here and far worse than any vitriol, and I am afraid that they are right.

Thats all well and good but what is the point of catamaran sailors continuing to support organisations with no teeth. If the Australian delegate had voted against cats I would have cancelled the 5 Yachting Australia memberships I pay for each year straight away, as it would show that they have no influence in my chosen direction. We all know whats going to happen the American delegates for 2016 will say aw sorry we were confused, trust us next time keep paying your membership and we'll see what we can do. If every cat sailor from a country that rejected cats cancelled their membership to that country's organisation that would make people notice. Hang onto that anger and that post from Rick with the smiley face ( <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />US wants 2 cats in 2012 Olympics) needs to be permanently at the top of the posts.

You make a very good point! But I do think there were people who did know the full implications of the revised process, namely those who put the motion so the more that is known about it, the worse it looks to me.

Smoke and morrors comes to mind.

The old 'pea and thimble trick'.

The link on 'rule69' site has been disabled!!!!

Indeed <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Which means that "somebody" noticed and "somebody else" went to the trouble of making threats to the guys setting up the domain and redirecting it. I think the message is coming trough..

For those who did not get to enjoy the joke, the link http://fatoldmeninmonohulls.com/ pointed to ISAFs website.

That link doesn't work now either.

It was interesting reading Carol Cronins entry on SailJuice on the women's match racing event.

The basic gist of the story is that they now need to build a viable Olympic event.

But surely ISAF should only be selecting events that are already viable??? Am I wrong?

Incase my entry gets moderated out of there, here it is...



By: Nick Billett on November 18, 2007
at 2:08 am

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Why is an event that needs to build momentum being selected for an Olympic spot? Surely if the event has been selected for the Olympics it already has significant infrastructure and support world wide to earn the Olympic spot. I thought that was part of the ISAF charter for selecting Olympic events.

Maybe we should try for the Special Olympics. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hmmm, interesting idea. And the Paralympics, too. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

No you got that all wrong, The only use THAT argument to exclude a class they want to exclude like the multihulls. The 49-er was not really a viable international class at the time when they got added to the Olympics remember.

All sailboats are equal in ISAF's opinion, but some sailboats are more equal then others.

Wouter

Adversity or Opportunity ?

We just saw the A Cat-World with 100 sailors participating.
A Tornado is/was basicaly a B-Cat.
Tornado International Association could morph into a B-Cat Association, customizing existing rules to include other 20's and trigger research from boat designers and builders.
The challenge will be to favor affordable solutions without pledging innovation.
With today IT possibility, I feel confident it is possible to develop cooperative project via Internet to achieve the best trade-off between cost and performance.
It is also possible to imagine "Spare-parts Bank" involving
standard carbon cross-beam, rudder, centerboard,boom, mast....
If so, innovation can be very cheap as it will be possible to focuse on hull & sail design only.

Cheers

EK

I'm currently doing my second Internet based Catamaran design/class project; first the F16 class and now the F12 youth cat.

These IT based initiatives come with their own share of problems and obstacles. You can well compare them to any town meetings were each and any local is attending. It is very difficult to maintain focus and mould something constructive from a very chaotic environment. But having said that, it can be done. The proof is in the fact that it has been done already with regard to another class.

Wouter

I dont think the ITA will ever go for something like that. Reading the charter of the ITA, protecting the one design status and the olympic spot are on the top of the list for the ITA. A new organization would have to be set up to get a B-class started again. I am all for some development in 20 footers again, but no at the cost of multihulls in the games. It looks to me like momentum and anger is fading, even if some say there are things going on behind the scenes. I think it's too late for a big change now, the initial anger has passed.

It looks like the petition to the IOC will top 4000 signatures, that's about it.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/multihullinolympics/index.html


BTW: The ITA charter is not available on the ITA website anymore? Wonder why it has been removed? Last time I checked, it was there, and there have been no ballots in the meantime.
http://tornado.org/uploads/documents/International%20Tornado%20Class%20Constitution.pdf

A little disappointed no one reacted to this. Any thoughts? Particularly interested in hearing from John W. and area reps.

If an open class is the answer, it is misguided thinking that simply taking ideas from an open forum is sufficient. "I'm currently doing my" does not lead to confidence in contributing. Your formal claim of ownership in letter form on your site reinforces your intentions. You should look toward the open source software licenses for guidance on developing a community based, community owned endeavor. Your current attempts are really no different than any of the traditional manufactures with their class associations.

On a related note... do you know about the existing Newcat F12 catamaran? Newcat F12 reference

The Tornado is one of the B Class Catamarans that were at the 1967 Olympic Trials to choose an Olympic multihull platform. The were quite a few others there, some still existing classes today such as the Dart.

This is from Scuttlebutt Europe!

Editorials - The Olympics


Most editorials this week focused on the ISAF's decision vis a vis the events for the 2012 Olympics. I'd like to have struck a balance, but frankly it was impossible to find anyone who thought the final vote result was anything but a disaster.

Most notable are those from the current crop of Olympic sailors:

* In a letter to Magnus Wheatley's Rule69blog.com, Ian Walker, one of Britain's greatest sailors:

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. 24 hours ago I thought the ISAF Events Committee had sobered up from their night on the tiles by deciding to axe the 2 keelboat classes - at last they have seen some sense. Get rid of the 2 most expensive boats to campaign that hardly anybody sails - obvious!

They have now perfected a U turn faster than any modern political party. If ISAF cannot see that high performance dinghies are the way of the future and that the obvious way to increase female participation in the Olympics (and the sport) was the women's high performance dinghy then there is little hope.

How can you possibly justify ruling out a women's high performance dinghy in favour of women's match racing? How many countries have a women's match racer? Is this the future of our sport? Compared to high performance sailing, match racing is dull and the technicalities are understood by few - there is no obvious feeder (except maybe university team racing) and the bigger countries will simply 'out coach' the smaller nations to victory. If match racing is so good why has it already been kicked out of the Olympics for the men? If it is so good then surely have it for men and women! I suspect it is simply a convenient way of getting the number of female competitors up with only 1 medal allocated.

The saddest thing in all this is that Weymouth is a fantastic venue for high performance sailing and there will be lots of female 29er youth sailors who will not be able to move up to the Olympic classes. I wonder how many young sailors were asked for their opinions by ISAF? Whilst nobody will shed a tear for the Yngling which should clearly have never been an Olympic Class, what about the Tornados? Surely it offers more of a spectacle than Finn sailing? Surely it is more appealing than Star sailing? I have sailed Stars in the Olympics and even I think they should not be in the Games. As you rightly point out there is light at the end of the tunnel as ISAF Council will probably make another U turn and change this decision when they next meet, which kind of begs the question why have the committees in the first place. I'm with you - let's bin the committees and have a dictatorship. The question is 'who would make the best dictator?'

* In TheDailySail.com, comments from Shirley Robertson and Simon Hiscocks: Shirley Robertson: Some might say that match racing will be good for the sport as it can reduce costs dramatically with boats being supplied for events, but Robertson maintains this is simply not the case. "It would be interesting to know how see it working. Are they going to select a boat or are they to be supplied? If the reason is to lower price then I do not think that they have really thought it through. If you are going to be match racing in different boats then you end up buying two of each for training. Then the rich countries just get better and better because they can buy more and more boats," she points out.

This is not the only problem either. Robertson adds that with fleet racing in theory anyone can give it a go, but with match racing it is much more difficult as entry to regattas often involves invitations based on each individual sailor's ISAF ranking.

Simon Hiscocks: Haha the ISAF cannot get themselves out of their comfortable little place and move the sport on. They are still clearly stuck in their choice of disciplines with relation to the actual classes used. What clear thinking person could justify a single handed boat for the men as well as a single handed boat for the men , when the women get only one choice of single handed or double handed boat to sail.

They hark on about the need to improve the sports' image to raise the media profile etc and then fail to deliver when it really matters...

I argue that the one person dingy serves the same sailing community as the heavy, particularly as the keel boat also fits into the heavy category. Look at, currently, the class in question, either you get lighter and sail a Laser or sail a Star, simple. It doesn't serve a particular sector of the sailing community. Nor is it representative of the sport - the Laser is the worlds most popular sail boat, nearly all other single handers are a slightly smaller or larger derivative of this, (go on Phantom and OK sailors get your arms in the air) so the Laser represents this sector of the sport. -- lots more from both sailors at www.thedailysail.com

* Olympic multihull sailor Darren Bundock: What can I say? I am shocked, disappointed and totally confused. I have lost all faith in the ISAF and especially the council decision-making process. Sailing has taken a massive backwards step not only eliminating the multihull but not implementing the women's high performance skiff or the women's multihull. Just keeping the doublehanded dinghy and not moving with the times.

Our sport had the chance to take a massive jump in London 2012 (finally an Olympics possibly with wind) but our sport has been destroyed by a council made up of inactive unyouthful ex-sailors living in the past.

The multihull has been discriminated against, it was the easy option. Despite multihulls making up for 25% of the sailing fraternity we have very little representation on the ISAF council. They are all elderly keelboat sailors. I'm surprised the multihull got so close to defeating the keelboats. I am at fault in not believing ISAF would discriminate against a whole diverse discipline in the Olympics. -- Boating OZ, www.boatingoz.com.au/?page=24014

Yachting Australia statement
Concern raised by authority's CEO Phil Jones over 2012 events
Yachting Australia has expressed both disappointment and concern over the decision taken last week by the ISAF Council to drop the Multihull from the list of events for the 2012 London Olympic Games. Yachting Australia delegates supported the retention of the multihull event throughout the ISAF Annual Meetings which took place in Estoril, Portugal from 3-11 November.
ISAF was challenged with reducing the number of Olympic events from 11 in 2008 to 10 for 2012 in Weymouth. "To not include the multihull in 2012 is to disenfranchise a large part of the sport of sailing," says Phil Jones, CEO of Yachting Australia and member of the ISAF Events Committee, which recommended that the multihull should be retained. "The speed and excitement of catamarans is a real draw to young people. They are the speed machines of sailboat racing. Whilst there is only a limited number of countries involved in the Tornado Olympic Class, multihull sailing is an attractive and truly global part of the sport."

ISAF has been heeding the clear message from the International Olympic Committee (IOC) over recent years that for the sport to maintain its place on the Olympic Program it must take steps to become more attractive to the media and the public. Changes to the format of the competition have been made and a World Cup Series has been agreed in effort to ensure more regular exposure for Olympic sailing.

"Catamaran racing is fast and comes across as really exciting," says Phil Jones. "The Tornado is one of the most telegenic boats in the Olympic Regatta. The boats are big enough to carry on board cameras and tracking devices that can really bring the contest to life for the viewer. To not have a place for it, or another multihull, is a real step backwards for a sport that has the challenge of building its profile. For us, there was just no focus on the bigger, long-term picture."

Yachting Australia is also concerned over the process by which the multihull was excluded. The ISAF Council voted to change the process recommended for the selection of the events. This meant that there was no "run-off" vote between the Multihull and the Keelboat.

"There was no real discussion over the implications of the change. It altered the fundamental principles of the recommended system." says Phil Jones. "Some consider that the change, which was taken on a motion from the floor, was taken with undue haste. Certainly many around the Council did not seem to appreciate the full implications of the change. Those that used their first vote to support other events may well have backed the multihull over the keelboat had they had the opportunity. This change denied them this opportunity. I am sure that having had time consider the implications, many will recognise that the change, put forward as a mere simplification, was much more than this."

Yachting Australia is concerned over the reaction to the ISAF Council decision. "We understand that some will be very disappointed but the personal and vitriolic attacks that we have seen do nothing to help the cause of those making them. In fact, they only do damage. Yachting Australia does not consider this type of reaction appropriate in any way."

Yachting Australia is considering what further action, if any, can be taken to revisit the decision. "However much we might disagree, if we felt the decision had been properly considered and made with those around the table fully understanding the implications, we would accept it. Obviously we don't consider that this is the case. We shall be discussing the issue with colleagues from other countries and IOC representatives over the next few days before deciding how we proceed."

So, really.....

Why not go for the 'X' games? More popular for youth, fast, exciting, world class athletes. Great venues.

I say bail on the 5 rings, go for the X.

This is the Olympic Report on its reccomendations made to the ISAF prior to Beijing-
OLYMPIC PROGRAMME COMMISSION
REVIEW OF THE OLYMPIC PROGRAMME
AND THE
RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE PROGRAMME OF THE
GAMES OF THE XXIX OLYMPIAD, BEIJING 2008\

3.1.4 Recommendations on the events/athlete quotas of sports currently in the
Olympic Programme
While noting that a full review of the event programme and athlete quotas for the Games of
the XXIX Olympiad would be conducted following the decisions on sports and disciplines,
the Commission developed certain recommendations on the events or athletes quotas in
the following sports on the programme of the Games of the XXIX Olympiad:
Sailing (ISAF) – Reduction in athlete quota and number of events
In comparison with other individual sports, the Commission noted the high quota and
number of events in sailing, in comparison to the low broadcast and spectator appeal. In
addition, the cost and complexity of the operations of the sailing competition were
discussed, with the resulting challenges for general practice and development of the sport.
The Commission therefore recommends the reduction of the athlete quota and number of
events in the sport of sailing for the Programme of the Games of the XXIX Olympiad.
It was noted that the Keelboat class are very expensive boats and demand costly
infrastructure for Olympic competition, and for general practice and development in
comparison to other classes. Therefore, if the Executive Board recommends the reduction
in the number of athletes and events, the Commission believes these reductions could be
made through the exclusion of keelboat sailing events from the Programme of the Games
of the XXIX Olympiad, which would also reduce the construction and operational costs and
complexity.

I'm proposing an OD class setup not a SMOD setup. I will control the rights to the class and design in order to have sufficient control later on when the class growths. But as it is an OD with area's left unregulated anyone can commericialize their own endeavours. Adn if anybody REALLY disagrees with this then they are welcome to replace me, as I have offered many times. I appears however that I'm the only one willing to put in the required effort. And I'm not going to do all that work without coming away with something.

Wouter