I can confirm the opposite and that is that your statement is not true.

Wouter

As Wouter said, The pic is of a Jav 2 not the new Bim 16. A little deceptive of them, had me believing it was a pic of their new boat ! That`s what led me to write that they have launched their new boat, I don`t have any evidence of that other than the misleading pic on their web-site, but I bet I wasn`t the only one fooled !
Thanks for putting me straight. Truth is that a boat with a taller rig WILL perform better than a shorter rig in lighter wind and vice versa - a lower aspect rig works better in a blow as you get more power lower down.This is the case where I sail, mostly against Dart 18`s, with a mast length of 8m, approx 12sqm mainsail area. I sail a 16 foot cat called a Mosquito - the Aussies will know the boat as it was designed by one of their own & was the boat which the Taipan was developed from. (Check history of the Taipan on the Aussie web-site.) My mast is 7,3m with approx. 12sqm sail area & my boat weighs 99kg. In light breeze I compete with the Darts on an equal basis, but in more than 15 knots I tend to run away from them.
The difference is my boat is about 40kg lighter. The Taipan rig looks high-aspect enough, if not too much for me (combined crew weight of 125kg 2up), in more than 18 knots I would be wasting half the power just to stay upright - a boat with a shorter mast & longer boom providing the same sail area would probably be faster in heavy breeze.
I expect that a Bim 16 with a 9m mast would be faster than a Taipan if sailed solo in light wind, and slower upwind in a stiff breeze (overpowered). Since both boats are similar in weight the comparison between my Mosquito & a Dart 18 doesn`t apply in this situation. Likewise, a Bim 16 sailed double may be slower than Taipan in light wind, but may perform better in a breeze - It will definitely point higher.
I think the mainsail efficiency ratio is the key here - In order to be F16 compliant a boat with a 9m mast must have less sail area than a boat with 8,5m mast - I think in time the boat designers will settle on 8,5m anyway as I think a 9m mast is a bit extreme unless you always sail in less than 5 knots.
The reason the Bim 16 is creating a stir is probably that it has been designed to be sailed 2up with no jib. How does that affect the solo sailor ? Only on-the-water comparisons will tell, so we`ll have to wait & see.
What I do see on this forum is that the majority of those involved sail Taipans, so it`s only natural that they would be concerned about any new boat that fits within the F16 framework & is faster than the Taipan / Stealth / Spitfire. This would not be good for the class, as I don`t see Taipan sailors all buying 9m masts & new sails if this is the faster route. The original intent of the class was to provide cost-effective racing on similar boats that have similar speed-potential, if a different rig configuration proves to be much faster it could hurt the class. Based on this I would have to agree that limiting the mast height to 8,5m is probably a sensible thing to do, however it seems ill-considered given the fact that Bimare have spent considerable time & effort developing their new boat which until recently did fit into the class box-rule. Based on Wouter`s post it seems they are not concerned with being involved in F16 class, but it would be a pity to exclude them if they have similar performance, as their numbers could help your own class grow.
That`s all I was trying to say.

I followed closely all the discussions threads and came to the conclusion that I will not consider anymore a F16HP boat simply due to the fact that you guys can't get your act together. I will go for a good old 'boring' F18 - 5.5m, 2.6m, 9m, 17m2, 4.15m2, 21m2 -> and no discussions about mast length, sail area, etc. . I can go back to the basics and measure myself against other sailors and if I loose, there will be no excuse.

Pipo

the IF18s have just changed a few rules themselves.. It would appear to be a way to ban a boat that was designed to their rules and found to be too quick.. If the weight isnt problem good luck and enjoy...
Im sure we will settle on a final set of rules soon..

I'm really sorry to hear that.

But may I ask how the :

good old 'boring' F18 - 5.5m, 2.6m, 9m, 17m2, 4.15m2, 21m2

is different from the :

Just formed and improving F16 : 5.0 mtr. 2.5 mtr. 8.5 mtr. 13,00 rated m2, 3,65 rated m2, 17,5 m2

As are the specs of the Stealth F16; Blade F16, Taipan 4.9 Spi and also the Ventilo Zipo design who make up the true F16 class.

And if anyone thinks that the F18 is void of controversy than I advice everyone to take a good look at the "F18 class versus Capricorn F18 with foiling boards" issue. That one is developing into a right soap opera with much more damage potential.

Wouter

Hi Pipo,
You say:
"I can go back to the basics and measure myself against other sailors and if I loose, there will be no excuse."
Sounds like you want "One Design" racing.
If you live in the UK and if your crew weight suits F16HP, you can combine One design and Formula racing. You might find that the Spitfire suits your needs - a grandfathered F16HP and a class that had 16 cats at the Grafham Water Inlands last month.(15 raced).
Dermot.

Dear Pipo,
Before you make any decisions on what boat to buy, consider a few factors :
The F16 class is a newly emerging open formula class , currently updating their class rules after a year of development. The fact that this would happen was made clear at the beginning, when the class was first formed. The guys involved are doing an amazing job, there will always be differences of opinion, and this forum allows those opinions to be known. I, for one, do not own a F16 boat, my interest is in any 16ft cat that performs better than it`s design size leads one to believe it will, mostly in modern design lightweight 16ft cats.
If you read the old class rules which are currently being revised you will see that whoever dreamed this class up has done a lot of homework on performance equalisation, admittedly mostly theoretical & not fully tested yet, however it allows boats of very different designs to race on equal basis as long as their rated performances are similar, even taking crew weights into consideration. I think the idea is great, it allows sailors with different ideas on what is faster to experiment within the rules. Most of the boats are one-design with minor modifications ie standard Taipan with spinnaker being the only add-on. Sure a Taipan sailor can max his boat out to F16 specs but then he won`t be Taipan class compliant. This is no different in the F18 class - Hobie Tiger can be modified to race F18 but won`t comply with Hobie class rules. But he can sail a standard Tiger in F18. The same as F16.
I think what happened in this thread is a bit of a lack of understanding from outside observers like myself who were not aware of all the facts before making comment. I personally believe that the class should allow all boats that rate at a similar ISAF/Texel rating to race on equal terms, irrespective of how long/short/fat/thin a mast is. If they have equal ratings they should be closely matched in performance. The alternative is to tighten up the rules so that all the boats are identical, then we`re back to one-design or worse still, one-manufacturer classes.
Don`t forget that F16, like F18 is made up of (mostly) one-design boats like Taipan, Stealth, Spitfire etc, so if you owned one of these boats you could race in your own class events AND in open regattas against F18`s & F16`s on an equal basis. I can think of nothing more rewarding than sailing a 16footer faster than a F18 !
Another factor to consider is your intended crew weight - If you & your crew are 2 big heavy strong guys F18 may suit you better, F16 allows lighter crews to compete - father & son teams, husband & wife teams etc. If your wife weighs 80kg+ & can handle a F18 spinnaker in 20knots then that`s your route to go - If she`s 55kg then F16 will suit her better. Do you intend to ever sail single-handed ? This puts F16 forward as the better option than F18.
All things considered both classes are amazing, however one will suit your personal needs better than the other - that`s what should influence your decision. All other arguments should be settled on the race-course !

Happy sailing.
Steve