Just an ideea....

From the other side of the fence .

F16 sounds cool - like a fighter jet !! , in same theme as Tornado , Hurricane , Stealth

You got a good name , people are starting to relate to it , don't go and change it , Fast 16 sounds absolutely naff/lame perhaps not over the pond but certainly here , I would like a F16 - I nearly have the rig ! , but would be embarrased to say Fast 16 as you would just get the P*ss taken out of you .Wouldn't touch a boat with a barge pole with a name like fast 16 - sounds like a rotomoulded fun boat for folks that dont know what fast is .

You got more important things to do than changing the recognised name of an establishing class

(have you seen the comments in the F16 thread in SA ?? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />)

PS arguing about the name when you have more important matters to address only derates F16's in others eyes .

Thats free marketing feedback for you .

Stick to your ideals and move on theres a big place in cat sailing for F16 whose best feature is the 1/2 man equal competition in a high performance boat .and they are sexier to look at (new stealths particularily- but i'm biased ) and higher tech than the f18

It will be slow going for a while but as more sailors see the boats up close, I think they will consider it. I personally didn't consider it, thought it too small, until I sailed one. Perhaps we should be inviting others to go for a ride? Both sailors and non-sailors alike.

With the prices of A cats through the roof, the F16 is a great alternative one-man boat.

1.Faster than the A cat in some conditions.

2.Able to bring the wife or kids for a ride.

3. Not as expensive or hard to move about as an F18.

4. If you can't find crew, you can still race.

All are the strong selling points of the F16 class. Changing the name is not going to sell more boats.

Sail more. A guy came up to me Sunday. He used to have a mahogany A cat and thought the Blade looked cool under main alone. In just a minute Tback pulled in under jib and he liked that too.

We talked price for a minute and he thought the Blade looked even better.

So sail more. The boat is a moving bill board.

I've been watching the forum for a while now. I have seen the vid's on the webb (ie. the Spitfire) and even though I have been sailing for only a year now, I'm hooked and want a more practical boat than my aging Hobie 18. I believe that the best boat is the F16 due to size, weight, versatility and the fact that one man should be able to safely rig it. The challenge for people like me is, if you don't live in France, England, Australia or Floridia. You will have a very hard time finding one or even worse... even getting a response from the manufacturers when you email them for information.

One question, how close is the Nacra SL 16 to the F16 guidelines? I can get one of them pretty easily (and Nacra isn't that popular in the states!)

I'm not sure the new Nacra SL16 would be compettitive if raced in the F16 class. From what I have read, it has a bit less sail area, is a bit heavier, and has no daggerboards, so I doubt if it will point as well going upwind. Still, it might measure in to the F16 box rule, which specifies maximum sail area, minimum weights, not vice versa.

The SL 16 was supposed to be the new US Sailing youth cat so if you have kids and want them to get into a youth sailing cat, that would be the one. But it's not really an F16 per se. I wish they had built it more to the F16 rule, it would have been a better boat.

Maybe I haven't given everyone fair enough time to respond to my emails for information on the various F16's out there.

I live in Utah only about 1-15 minutes drive from the Great Salt Lake and have developed a love of sailing and have always loved going fast at anything I do. I would love to have a boat that will be fun and fast wether solo or with the kids while still having a light enough rig that I can step the mast without to much strain. My Hobie 18's mast is quite the chore to step if I am alone.

I just don't know how I might get one to me here in the middle of the continent.

I wasn't talking about a name change. Doesn't the 'F' in 'F16' mean formula? or an i still out to lunch?
Will

Billy, I live in Illinois and when I bought my Blade they crated it and shipped it here from Florida by truck. I just had to put it together. There are definitely big challenges being a long way from factory support or other locals who have one as well, but the forum here is a great source of support.

I just got a reply from Matt at Vectorworks with some pricing and details. I guess that there is only the blade that is really available here in the US right now as they are still waiting for the Viper to come available here.

I really am looking for something I can rig myself, go fast, have fun (with or without the kids) and not have to worry about reliability to much. My 28 year old TheMightyHobie18 takes at least a $50 bill out of my wallet each time I take it out and I won't even try and step the mast alone again. (almost dropped it on the wife's jeep last time, that would have been the end of my sailing career!) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Someone brought up the fact that Nacra's do sell quite well here in the US. I admittedly eat crow, here.

They are outselling everthing else here in the US. I guess what I meant to say is that the Nacra is not as popular in the US as in Europe and here again, I am probably wrong as I live in Utah and have no clue how well they sell on the coasts. That what I get for being a nube!

Cheers and no offense. (It would be really cool if Nacra got on the F16 train! Just the nube talking <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.)

Amen Brother, and I'm near a big city and sailing mecca.

[quote]Just an ideea....

quote]

: )

Timbo-
Just came back from the A Cat Worlds- Now THERE was lots of publicity! Why? IMO - It's got a lot of "development" and the Rock Stars sail them! If we really want to get on the racing radar we need some (more-in the US we at least have Matt right now! ) of those rock stars sailing and competing on our (F16) boats. We need some National and International races with the likes of Gashby, Booth, Glasers, Guck, Smyth, etc. sailing and winning on our boats- That takes "resources" (ie money) to happen- these persons are sailing professionals. Several of the above mentioned are sailmakers and DO have at least some monetary gain to be made from our class since we have "open" sail rules. We need to invite these persons to come to races, give some demos. and talks and bring/sail on their sails they have sold to the participants. We need to have our boats entered in the big events that COME with publicity- I'm talking Texel, the Alter Cup qualifiers, some of the other big distance races, etc. preferably doing well or winning.
What do you think the impact of the Global Challenge would have been if Gashby had been racing Booth and, say, Smyth and Dercksen?
As for marketing to "newbies"- we are not a "newbie" boat IMO, maybe "newbie" to cats but not "newbie" to sailing- just like the A cat is not for newbies. As for NACRA, Hobie etc. joining the F16 builders- that will come with interest and potential market. Believe me, if either thought there was a good market for them out there to build an F16 they would be!
The main topic of conversation at the IACA meeting was how to keep the A class growing. With the cost of a new A cat now in the 20K-40K USD range (Thanks weak dollar!!) that class has the same issue with how to get new sailors (think younger) into the class.
Compared to the A Cat we are a marketing dream IMO- Our boats are light but not too light/fragile, can be sailed with one OR two people and raced that way, can be sailed with a spinnaker, can also be rigged/righted easily by one person, and the class is more "defined" than the A cat (imagine spending 30K one year only to find out your boat is "not competitive" the next year!).
We need to keep sailing, showing the boat, writing up our great results, supporting the companies that are willing to support us (ie sail on our boats- the Glasers make nearly all the Blade sails but neither competes on F16's-- We need to invite them for instance!).
Just throwing out some other ideas here-
We could benefit possibly by positioning ourselves as a "training class" for the Formula 18 "wannabe's" and the frustrated A cat sailors and older Formula 18 sailors.
Having "cheap" intro. boats would be helpful - and there are options along these lines but we need to culture those- I'm talking about old Mosquitos, Isotopes, heck even old Prindle 16's, Nacra 5.0's, Mystere 5.0's, Hobie 16's, etc. Maybe it would help to have a "Category 2 F16" ala the A cat? Have all the parameters the same EXCEPT the min. weight which could be 300-320 lbs.? These boats could race head up with the "Category 1" boats for overall F16 results BUT also be scored separately for their own trophies? This would suddenly open up the "Class" to a huge number of potential sailors- ALL of whom would likely be interested in at least upgrading sails and possibly masts- the sail/mast makers could develop "kits" to "upgrade" their current (or easily/cheaply purchased) old Nacra/Hobie/etc.- sort of like the Formula 14 is offering to Hobie 14 owners for instance.

Of course, as one of the "old farts", I'm just thrilled with where the class is now compared to even 5 years ago! So part of me says "Just keep up what you've been doing!".
Nuff said this morning <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Kirt <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Kirt,

great post!
I dont think we should market ourself as a as such, but we should certainly reach out to these. There is a difference in mentality.

Otherwise, I think it would be great looking at the Div1 - Div2 system. Bringing more boats and sailors into the community can only be good. Or?

With cats out of the olympics, Gashby, Bundock, Booth and others are certainly looking for new avenues. I dont know how much money there is to be made in the F-16 class, but the potential is there!

Kirt: Congratulations on sailing the "Worlds"! I'm still crushed that I couldn't get down to watch.

I do disagree with most of you though. Just sailing the boat will be the best promotion. Sail when you can and where you can. Just sail.

I have to add that "match racing" Tback, at Carlisle, in a small portsmouth fleet was a heck of a lot of fun. So don't think you have to have a big fleet to enjoy sailing.

I think Pete has it, we can preach to each other here all we want, but to bring in "new blood" we need to get the boats out on the beach/water and be seen.

I do agree that it is not a "starter" type boat, like say a Hobie 16, in either cost or complexity. But for the ones who are looking for something between an A cat and an F-18, the F16 makes a lot of sense, espicially for lighter crews or no-crews.

And it sure would help to get the type of exposure that those world champions garner when they all sail in one fleet. You see why Nacra and Hobie give some of those guys F-18's to race for free.

I will gladly -lend- my Blade F16 to Glen Ashby or Jay Glasser or Randy Smythe to race at Tradewinds if they are interested.

Share Rolf's reservation on market positioning. Also wonder if a having two divisions could have unintended consequences - delay people moving up to an optimized design and weaken the marketing message of the light-weight, high performance, dual configuration boat.

However, don't mean at all to suppress the brainstorming - it's all good. I like the idea of inviting some top sailors to borrow a boat at some key events. Maybe use a little sponsorship or some association funds to assist with travel expenses. Also like the idea in Kirt's other post of organizing some regional events.

Another suggestion - I think it would be cool to have "formula 16" in oversize outline lettering right down the size of our hulls. Maybe Robi could do us a group deal. Would stand out more at a mixed regatta than just a class logo on the sail or rear end of the hull.

Kirt
"We could benefit possibly by positioning ourselves as a "training class" for the Formula 18 "wannabe's" and the frustrated A cat sailors and older Formula 18 sailors."

If you promote anything as a "Training Class" you instantly devalued it. It would portray the owners of an F16 as not good enough to sail a real racing cat...so they have to settle on a F16... some day when they get good enough they can "step up" to a F18 or A cat which is so not the case.

If you want some one to desire your product you have to highlight everything that increases it perceived value, not the other way around. The F16 is poised in a perfect position of extreme versatility coupled with outstanding performance at a reasonable price…right now it represents the most bang for the buck of any catamaran class on the water. It needs to be promoted as such and not devalued in attempt to get anyone and everyone to buy one. The F16 is not for everyone…it is for the discriminating who will not compromise on performance, quality or versatility …it is not a training class…at this point in time it is “THE CLASS” setting the bar that all current (and in the near future) catamaran designs and classes are compared against. The class is steadily growing…solid growth…patients is a virtue.

I guess even one of the founders need to be reminded just what an incredible class he helped start once and a while...

Regards,
Bob

Here's a marketing idea;

If you think you're good, get an F16 and find out! Sailing it Uni with spin is the most demanding sailing you will do, tougher than the A cat solo or the F18 two up.

I heard there was a small group of A cat sailors who were pushing to add a spinnker, they might like the F16 instead, and it only costs half as much! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />