Hey Timbo,

Sorry I was away for the holidays and thought someone would have commented re: Randy.

Isn't the battened foot main a standard on the 25C? Someone else will have to comment. I always thought it was cool, since I've been whacked in the head by the boom so many times as a sailor - probably still stings a bit though.

Here's my question, if there is no boom, what do you do with the foot of the sail when you reef? Do you have to have holes in the sail at the reef points to pass ties through? Roll it up and tie it? I like the rolling booms when it comes to sail storage, but I don't like getting hit with them!

Hi Tim

a. I don't think anyone but Randy is messing with boomless rigs. He designed the one he carries on his 25C and the one I carry on the F27GS (Granger/Smyth)

b. Only Smyth can answer for sure, but I believe Smyth's boomless rig has more to do with safety than with anything else. I know from speaking to Tommy Granger that he was concerned with flying boom because Tommy took his whole family along sailing, and so does Smyth.

c. It takes some thought. Both Smyth's 25C and my boat have Marstrom carbon masts which are custom for both boats. My traveller has been redesigned to account for the boomless main.

d. yes, one reefs as you describe. There's some rigging lines for the clew and tack, pull the sail down, then bunch (if it's messy and hurried) or roll up the foot (yeah, right) and tie it to itself to reef. (That's a nutshell description.) When Smyth recently built me a set of sails, I asked for two reef points, although Tommy G. had only ever had one, and he said he never used even that. (I figure it's better to have it and not need it.)

For shorthanded heavy weather cruising, I have reefed and was well pleased with the result: couple of years ago husband and i were dinking in the Keys in the winter... we caught a bit of a blow, and we reefed sailing to weather and still averaged 10kt between Islamorada and Largo, along the Gulf side thru the mangroves. Comfortably, kick-back relaxed speed. (well, I was impressed, even if nobody else is.)

Thanks Tami, so you have a carbon mast on a F27? I assume it rotates as well, how much speed does that add compared to a stock non-rotating, metal mast?

And about what does a Marstrom mast for a F27 cost these days (if you know). I'm guessing quite a bit since an Inter 20 mast is up to about $5,000 I hear. I guess the price for a F28C mast would be about the same, anyone know how much that is?

According to the CTOA ratings:
http://www.corsair.web.aplus.net/6PHRFindex.htm

if I'm reading this correctly, the rotating mast costs 6 sec/mile. If you look at the numbers there at the website, you'll get a feel for what different mods should do to rating, ergo speed.


Cost of the stick...I would imagine, should I have the extremely bad luck to break the damn thing, (-knock-knock-bang-bang-on-wood, eew I hope I didn't jinx m'self) it would be in the minimum $20K range to replace the mast. (G.Zeus, I don't even wanna think about it.)

You should know that rigging time and hassle are greatly increased for me. We don't take Miz B out nearly as often as we would if she were stock, I expect. See attached pic of our gin pole. Husband is 6'1"

My boat is weird (very weird.), F27F (Formula) owners can give you a better idea of what you'll encounter

Thanks Tami. So you keep it on the trailer, mast down, most of the time?

-sniff- yes...

With the Precourt shrouds, it's not convenient or safe to raise the stick without her being unfolded.

With the AwlGrip paint job, I don't leave her in the water. But the launch is at the end of my street.

I look at it this way...

here in OS, are some houses designed by a fella by the name of Ishee ("ishee houses"). They are beautiful but problematic with leaking roofs and odd interior appointments, stuff like that. An owner was complaining about his Ishee house, and the other person said, "That's what you get for leaving a work of art out in the rain."

tami,
what do you think is unsafe about raising the mast with precourt shrouds?
I have been thinking about that question because my boat has the precourt shrouds and they are at a length right now where the previous owner had them for raising the mast with it unfolded. I would just need to loosen them a couple (?) inches to raise the mast with the amas folded then retighten them once they are unfolded. I suppose the concern is when I am unlashing the lines to retighten them. That has got me a little worried.
It seems most people like to raise the mast when on the water with the beams unfolded but for some reason I feel like I should do it on the trailer the first time (haven't done it yet, and I know it is supposed to be easy, but I am not looking forward to raising it the first time).
BTW.. what diameter line are you using for your synth shrouds?

As far as I'm concerned, it's unsafe to raise the mast on the trailer. Suzy Granger was hurt VERY badly in a fall whilst raising the mast on the trailer. It wouldn't be so bad if the boat is left folded in the water, I suppose. But then I have no cabin-top hardware for the babystay/temporary shrouds, although I could rig something up.

My Precourt shrouds are set up for the raised-mast position. They don't tighten that quickly, you're going to find it a real PITA to adjust every time you rig. That is to say, I would be quite sure that any time you've saved by not having to raise your mast is gonna be eaten up with messing with the shroud adjustment.

We drop the boat in the water, unfold at the dock, motor out a bit into the embayment, anchor, and finish rigging.

The shroud diametre?
http://www.precourt.ca/shopcart/default.php?cPath=25_33&language=en

Ask Erik Precourt for specs - your boat is larger than mine and I wouldn't venture to suggest anything. Besides I have found les Precourt to be helpful, supportive and very nice folks who produce excellent products.

Tami,
thanks. My shrouds are relatively new and don't show any signs of wear so I am mainly curious. They are 3/8 dynex which has a breaking strength of 24000lbs... which seems excessive but I guess better safe than sorry!
I see what you are saying about falling off the boat when it is on the trailer... long way to go. I think I will probably do the raising on the water, just need make sure I understand the rigging for it.

Kathryn,

Speaking from decades of Hobie racing (against YOU) and a few years of monohull sailing too, I suggest treating the F-Boats like a crossbread, but leaning more to the cats. My F24 mkI carries full sail single handedly to 20 knots. after that there is too much drag upwind for the drive given, and alot more at stake than a Hobie 17. Can do more wind if I have crew though. With a reef in the main and full jib, she really settles down and still goes very well, and is very balanced. Balance the sailplan to the wind like a mono, but you can depower with shape and trim similar to a cat for awhile, so you can be more aggressive than a mono would be there. My rules are: if you can keep the mainsail from luffing too much and the leward hull from being completely awash, you are OK. (watch the sea-state on that hull though) I don't think you need to work too much with mast rake unless you "only" sail in those conditions. (30ish)

Happy "tri-ing", hope we sail together again some day. (reefed or not)
:-)

Hey Mike, good to hear from you. Missed you this year.
Heavy air in Florida is a treat so I don't get a lot of opportunity to experiment in it with experienced crew. You are probably right I should leave my mast rake alone. Did you make it to the Corsair Nationals this year? They should have been pretty close to home for you.
I always look forward to racing against you anytime. Maybe you would crew with us sometime on the 28R?

Kathryn,

I did go to the BB Nats. My daughter and I hooked up with some great F-Boats and cruised around. We had a great time, without ever having a raceface on!
There's nothing like fast cruising and a comfortable place to stay too.

If I get near your area....I'll be looking for a ride! (you know where I am....the season is about over)

Mike
Gypsy F24mkI

Gang:

Friend had 28R flying in Bay Race today with main, jib and searcher, but had bad weather helm. It was blowing 20-28. What should he do next time?

Doug

1st thing to look at is the rudder. get it right down.

He said he left the steel pin out because of the shallow spots and stuff drifting in bay. He is thinking of a plastic pin or maybe some bungee cord? We are going out again Sat and I will watch it and feel it myself.

Doug