Once again what is YOUR CLASS doing to grow YOUR CLASS?
Anyone.....Buller.....Buller?

Rhino, you did a great job of summarizing the key misconception about the intent of the Hobie policy. It's only a zero-sum game if no new blood is being brought in.

One of the leading contributing factors to the Hobie-only policy being implemented in the first place was the perception of the class that we were losing classes to non-Hobie boats because our smaller fleets were being reduced below critical mass (for example, if you have 7 dedicated Hobie 18 sailors, take 3 away and put them on other boats, the Hobie 18 class is now down to 4 boats, you lost a strong 7-boat class).

The "problem" was identified as competition for Hobie sailors from other classes. That is what ultimately drove the class decision.

In New England, this decision came about 3-4 years too late, and all the fleets except one (448) were reduced to too few remaining Hobie sailors to continue as Hobie fleets. This will take a very long time (if ever) to recover, and was not the most popular decision of all time because of the friendships that had built between members of different classes, many of which had previously raced together on the same boats.

Barry, to directly answer your question, I'm not saying we have to choose a type of boat over our friends in the sport, but we had to choose to keep having one-design Hobie classes. We would have preferred that those who chose to leave the Hobie classes would come back (on Tigers, etc.), but that has not happened.

I've personally been not racing for the past two years due to pregnancy and baby. I have offered to assist in running any of the events in the area, regardless of class. I ran a number of events in Newport this past summer, as well as some Hobie events, and am more than happy to help when invited. Shoot me an email and we can discuss for 2008, or you and Patricia can come to my house on the 19th for a party Michelle, Hunter and I are having.

What are the dates for BSSC? I have commitments for the weekends of June 7 and June 14, other than that, I'm open.

Mike

I didn't ascribe bad intentions to you all. I realize you are just trying to survive like the rest of us.

People join classes, and people leave classes. People even join dead classes and leave active classes. A class runs into trouble when there's not enough new sailors to replace the ones that leave. HCA responded by trying to make it harder to leave the class, by cutting off the other options.

My point is that by cutting off those other options, you are also decreasing the inflow of new sailors.

To put it metaphorically, you are trying to stave off dehydration by not pissing. That won't stop you from dehydrating, and holding your piss isn't good idea anyway.

Answers to grow a class

1. Buy the boat that's the biggest, most active class in your area and act like you're in love with the boat. Promote all the good points and NEVER mention it's drawbacks.

2. Always portray handicap racing as a pain in the a$$ and not a real true contest of ability.

3. Take over (or start) a multi-class one design (let's not call it yacht) club and get your class start out there in front of the 24 other top classes. Make 'em converts.

So buying one of 30? boats in the country would be a bad plan <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

quote] 2. Always portray handicap racing as a pain in the a$$ and not a real true contest of ability [/quote]

So handicap racing impacts your one design class participation ???

How does that work? Do you need the big boogeyman "handicap racing" to scare people into staying put in your OD class?

Ok... I will write down SCARE TACTIC as a Hobie 20? initiative

But you know.... It can't be that scary bad...
how do you explain the IRC class.... I just got a full color magazine with my latest Sailing World. Seems like a lot of big time sailors are racing handicap that way ... world wide in fact!

One of the latest surveys of racing owners indicates that more one design racing will NOT increase participation.

Going out of your way to tell a racer... well... your racing sucks... you can't know if you are good if you race handicap certainly will be a winning strategy. Can you introduce me to anyone who has joined the class because of this appeal?



You think misrepresenting your class and boat is a SUCCESS STRATEGY!?

Is that working for the Hobie 20 class?.... Are you guys getting close to the 40 boat milestone by using deception....
Wow! For pete’s sake… don’t tell them the boat is not built anymore…

I guess that is a new definition of being helpful to new people considering the class. They will never figure this stuff out on their own...




Great... a useful idea!... but oh wait... Hobie Class tried that... they actually used to invite other cat sailors to experience the Hobie OD way of life... Same idea… convert em… Apparently... it back fired... rather then get cat sailors to switch to Hobie....the Hobie class CLAIMS they lost sailors to the classes they invited... ... (no proof ever offered) In FACT…. Hobie claims that it was the dreaded boogeyman… the “OPEN CLASS “ that stole their sailors….

But once they went back to the Hobie OD way of life… All of the wayward souls returned home…. Oops… not according to Mike of New England…

But... what the heck... Its worth another shot... You will get it right this time….

I won the 2007 Capricorn Nationals. In fact, I think I'll win the 2008 Nationals tomorrow.

Defenders of the Hobie policy - please remember that the change effectively ended several fleets that began as Hobie Fleet ###, but were happily hosting open events. Why didn't they continue, you might ask? The division of brands tore them apart. Sound melodramatic? I witnessed it in the SE US, from South Florida to Virginia. To deny there was a negative impact is either dishonest or uninformed.

Attackers of the Hobie policy - please remember that the policy was enacted by people in the Class that genuinely believe it is a necessary thing for the health of their Class.

Both sides should be honest and admit to themselves there IS another side with concerns that are no-less legitimate. You can't fight exclusionary practices with intolerance, and you can't grow cat sailing without acknowledging there are several brands sailed by people who love them.

Yeah, Mark - three F18 "nationals" is poor class planning, plain and simple.

On topic - applaud the H16s sucess in making the list, work together to get more cats on there if you think that is important. No reason As and F18s can't get there in a year or three - except apathy.

Amen!

Sounds like the strategy boils down to

1) Blame the Hobie class
2) Complain on internet forum
3) Do nothing

Good plan guys. Good luck with that.

Mark,

So how many boats were at the IRC "Class" Nationals? I didn't make the top 25. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I thought all the boats you took the time to list were OD classes??? Maybe I should have put one of these <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> at the end of No. 2 Actually, it WAS mean spirited and really can only be construed, in this context, as a direct gouge at cats racing Handicap and that's not where my thoughts were primarily directed. My apologies.

Every boat has its bright spots and drawbacks, let the high points AND the sheer numbers of racers be the attractor. I'm speaking in general terms (I promote the H16 on the local level and race the dead boat on the National level). As far as that dead boat goes it didn't fair too bad in '05 and '06 with (34) boats when the venue was close to the majority of racing population. We'll see how the numbers look in '08. It will be interesting to see to which "class" all these (H20) racers have gravitated to five years from now.

I didn't see any other cat classes on the top 25 list. "and get your class" (= F18, F17, F16, A class, N20, H16, insert YOUR class here) "Convert them" (= mono-hullers)

Wow, I'm glad I was raising kids and not racing prior to and during the Hobie edict times. Must have been ugly. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Im sure Mark is a really nice guy in person. Im still glad he lives in another state.

Happy New Year!

I have had bad hobie experience also. same "points regatta" BS basicly they didn't like getting there butts kicked by a first timer on a 1984 beat up 18. I got a 5th,3rd,2nd and 1st out of 4 races that day.six boats in the class. only to be diqualified at the end of the day, for not having trap wires and having a hobie bob on the mast. clearly a disatvantage to me. it would have been fine if they told me from the start i would be disqualified. i understand that. the funny thing is now years later the person whom complained now tries to sell us stuff and tell us his two cents and how great his hobie's are. Lee your story reminded me of why I don't race. The ORCA class is just as bad. With the BS they pulled that basicly made it finacially imposiable for me to race Newport to Ensenada. Altho my boat would have been exactly like a boat that was "Grandfathered" VIVA27. So my new boat a 1972 wooden c-class we will be out there. having fun and trying to make it go as fast as it can.

While I really enjoy the political, economic, and enviromental discussion. The anti-HCA or pro HCA stuff is really boring.

I'll agree. Why can't we limit it to your boat is too short, too long, too heavy, too fragile, antiquated, too expensive, not suited for that and/or dead and just leave it at that? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Good Point Rolf.

If you wanted an answer to the question
"What is your class doing to grow participation at the nationals?"

You would start with the Class President.


Tornado... Alain Dubec....
A class Bob Hodges.
Hobie 16 Bob Merrick
F18 Dan Delave
Shark Christina Perrin
Isotope Frank Meldau
Hobie 18 ???

Oops...
So, I asked an 18 sailor who went to their nationals this year. ... who is your class president ? leader? .... Ugh... don't have one!
Did you have a meeting of your class at the nationals .... Ugh No!
Could you answer the question.. What is your class doing to grow participation at the nationals?.... Ugh... probably nothing. but No... I could not answer.

Hobie 17
Hobie 20
Nacra 20 ???
Nacra F17 ???
F16???

I did not know and I could not find a name for any of these US classes either. Somebody is making stuff happen.. so there must be some leadership.

If John Williams and US Sailing wanted to hold a meeting of the class leaders of each class... and he reported that about half of the classes had no obvious representative leadership that could speak for their class.
How do you think they would view us?

A reality check is in order here and We should not kid ourselves that all is well. When you can't find a person... much less the individual that Rolf is describing. It is likely that you have problems.

Oh... right... that Olympic thing worked out so well for us.
Imagine that!

Karl has a good point. There is no way everyone on this site is ever going to have a Kumbaya epiphany any time soon regarding the HCA policy, whether it stays, goes or changes to something new.

I enjoy my family, my Hobie family, racing my Hobie Cat and running races. Unfortunately, I don't have unlimited free time, so I'm not able to promote every class of boat out there, so I'll continue to promote Hobie Cat racing.

If someone needs my help to run a regatta (of any type of boat), I'm there and will work like a dog to make sure you have great racing.

But don't ask me to promote your boat ahead of mine, or alongside mine, I'm not asking you to do that.

Mike

Mark: FYI
http://www.formula16.org/content/view/34/52/lang,en/

all it takes is two clicks after going to formula16.org

Class Strength depends on the efforts of the local sailors and volunteers. See http://www.div4.hobieclass.com/ Check the tenative 2008 schedule. Would be hard to be more open or inclusive than this plan. As to who is the "Class Leaders" in HCA, click on the NAHCA link, everyone is listed, even with their pictures. Step up volunteer, take part, you will be suprised at the results. Right now we are planning the expanded Youth program for 2008, and our participation at the Seattle Boat Show later this month. Will assist at the Hobie Cats Northwest Booth, Sail Sand Point Booth, Video presentations at both, plus Boat Show Seminars as guest speakers.

Caleb Tarleton

That is just the thing about Hobie that bothers some of us, isn't it.

First of all the Tiger is an F18 and not a Hobie OD class, always has been so why have they split off and formed they own rival class with rival championships to the F18 class ?

Secondly has anybody counted the number of different Hobie boats ?

There are 20 hobie beach cat designs that were launched in last 35 years, which other catamaran manufacturer even comes close to that number ?

Hobie accuses other classes of doing stuff that they feel are perfectly acceptable when they do it themselves.

Wouter

Till not too long ago it was perfectly obvious who was leading the F16 class and ever since I made room for somebody else I've been a little dismayed at how invisible our official presence has become.

So indeed Mark you are completely right in this respect.



With respect to




I have a completely different take on things and have had so for years.

I think we should all put ourselfs in great soup (handicap racing) and share as much events as we can. Look for boats that are up to date and able to catch the imagination of new blood and advice every potential buyer of the advantages and drawbacks.

Actually, I WANT to be beaten by say a Hobie 16 sailor in an open handicap race. Makes me try harder next time to stay ahead and it will give that H16 crew a major two thumbs up to have beated an F16 ! Larger fleets are more fun, 6 boat fleets are just BS. During my tenure we have actively invited other classes and designs to share a race course/event with us. In some cases we actually did, I refer to the annual A-cat/F16 invitational in Gulfport and the combined F16/FX-one event in the UK. I can only say that these events have been beneficial for us and I don't see the A-cats impacted negatively by sharing an event with us.

And I've found that honesty last the longest so lying about your class gets you nowhere in the long run.

On top of this we should organise ourself under one umbrella organisation and work together to get as large a foot print as we can in relation to our numbers.

In my opinion, everything Hobie corp does is in direct opposite to what is needed and described above. Anybody else wonder why the FX-one is being upstaged the world over by a bunch of amateurs on F16's ?

Alot of times the truth is somewhere in the middle, in a few cases it is not.

Wouter