maybe male your F18 a 104.

Geez, all I wanted to know was what the Texel rating for the Viper was for a regatta, and now we are on the 9th page!

Go sailing dudes, oh wait it is winter up north, hehehe. Gorgeous weather in Sing. 12 to 15knots, sunny and hot, and water is warm....

Enjoy JC,

I am flying out to NZ in a few hours to go play Tornadoes for a Month.

Cheers

Stephen

Steve,
I sent you my number as requested.
Happy to discuss your concerns anytime.

Regards,
Phill

Are most boats failing?

I'd suggest most are now close. Mine is close as is all new Stealth F16; Hans Boat was carrying lead to make it measure.

If you want to TRY and change the class rules you need to be an owner and memeber of a NA; then you can propose class rule changes and then if appropiate they get VOTED on.

I like the boat at 104/107.

I'd be very interested in Rolf's view as he is building 3 boats at present. Doe HE think the MIN weight is about right?

I think the min weight is about right. I dont know where our building project is going to end up yet, but that is really not the point in this discussion. Manufacturers are building down to almost min weight, and that is good enough. Building below min weight with ease would mean that the target isn't hard enough to reach.

What we have seen over the couple of last days is a clash of philosophies. The F16 concept was put together by some very smart and experienced sailors. These sailors came together and decided on what boat they would like to sail themself and what was practical in real life. What they came up with was a lightweight boat, but still heavy enough for low tech home construction. They had also felt other issues on their bodies, like unreliable crews, handling on land, righting from a capsize, cost, "arms races", durability etc. All the rules defining the F16 have gone trough many rounds of discussions to be the basis for a good platform. These rules are good rules as proven by the fleet sailing today.
That was the history lesson. What I see Steven and Andrew doing now is something completely different. First off, I would dare to say that 99% of the class is happy with the min weight. I define the "class" as boatowners and builders, no others. I have not asked everybody in the class, but that is the impression I have. So if a very large majority of the class is happy, why change? Well, they way I see it, the only ones really interested in raising the min weight to something like 130Kgs would be manufacturers. Why? Becouse building a 16 foot catamaran at 130Kgs is easy and can be done with unskilled, really cheap labour. Meaning boats can be sold a bit cheaper and margins for the builder can be larger. "Making more money fast" as most spam said in the 90s. I think it is good that manufacturers make a living out of building boats. But I spend my money on what I want, not what the manufacturer wants to sell. It is a simple as that for me.

Now, Marcus and Danny is bringing something else to the table. They are argumenting a slight increase in min weight to make the target min weight achievable. I think changing the rules to accomodate this is the start of a very slippery slope. Having a hard to reach weight is good, giving all manufacturers a goal and not letting them relax in their building procedures.

Another isse has been that the F16 is not "a professional class". Well, what does Andrew and Steven mean by that? I suspect that deep down they think a class is not professional until the big guns like Bundy, Mich and others are active in the class? I can not understand how they can say that other aspects of the class is unprofessional so this is the way I interpret it. Well, I have sailed in the most "professional" class of them all, the Tornado class. I dont see how having professional sailors with manufacturer support in a class does much good for the class. The pros are there to win and make money, while we, the F16 class, really want our events to be about the people and having a good time. We are racing, but it's the social part which makes an event successful. So what if we suck at sailing, as long as everybody sucks equally?

Limiting crew weight? Why would we limit who can race these boats? It is a formula class! If you are very light or very heavy, set up your boat and gear accordingly. I have raced the Tornado at 200Kgs crew weight. With the right sails we were very competitive amongst other weekend warriors.

I dont see how we can get something meaningful out of this discussion, as we dont discuss facts but feelings. I think it is time to end this discussion, and let those class members who feel it is a good idea submit a proposal to the GC for the next rules revision. I also think this discussion as it has been conducted has done more harm than good for the F16 class. Prospective F-16 sailors/people watching this discussion would probably be scared off by what can look like a class where the rules changes every few months. Lets be smart and put the topic of weight to rest while showing the world that our class rules are there for a good reason.

I've written in the other thread that I'm done with this.

Therefor I won't continue here.

I find many claims made to be misleading, unfunded or simply not true.

I also find the discussion pointless from now on asn no official proposal is presented to the F16 GC that can be put up for a vote. Without that the class rules are what they are and class minimum is 107 kg.

Wouter

Rolf Nilsen had said everything that can be said at the end of this discussion and he is damn right in every aspect.

Agreed.

Hey, many thanks to you and Alice for getting me a ride with David on his Blade yesterday. Enjoyed it a lot, even though we had few rig issues that slowed us down a little. Beautiful facility at CSC and interesting to race in a different environment.

No problems Mark. Glad to hear you had a good day. though disappointing you had a few rig issues. But the water would have been a lot warmer than what you are used to. Looked there were a few boats out and about.

Ended up getting to Changi after you guys finished sailing. Had things to do in the morning, and great night out before;). But main thing was that I had a great 2 hrs out burning around. Scared/enthused a few Malaysian Opti sailors when I sailed through their fleet flying hull and screaming along. Wind actually built up to 12 to 15 after your guys finished, just awesome stuff.