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Re: Oregon Wave and tidal energy [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #131808
02/21/08 03:41 PM
02/21/08 03:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Quote
Must be a lot of turbulence downwind of them. If the disturbance stretches for 20 times the height.. Dont put the race course too close to them. Say goodbye to any interesting birds as well.

Too late for that I'm afraid:
http://www.xtreme40.com/container.asp?section=news&container=true&artid=8678

--Advertisement--
Re: Oregon Wave and tidal energy [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #131809
02/21/08 03:49 PM
02/21/08 03:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 943
East Gippsland, Australia
Tim_Mozzie Offline
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Quote
Must be a lot of turbulence downwind of them. If the disturbance stretches for 20 times the height.. Dont put the race course too close to them. Say goodbye to any interesting birds as well.


I wonder about the bird problem with these wind farms. Where I live you can't drive anywhere for a few minutes without seeing the remains of some bird on the road. When I think of the scale of the road system and imagine how many dead birds there must be lying on roads, I really can't see how the numbers that fly into wind generators can be significant.

If the numbers were comparable the maintenance people would have to bulldoze the carcases out of the way just to get to the base of the tower!

If it really is a serious problem then maybe we should be ripping up the roads to save the birds!


Tim Shepperd
Mosquito 1775
Karma Cat
Re: Oregon Wave and tidal energy [Re: Tim_Mozzie] #131810
02/21/08 04:36 PM
02/21/08 04:36 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

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West coast of Norway
These windmills are a real problem for birds. The tip of a blade is really moving at high speed and the birds have not learnt to watch out for them yet. We have one of these plants not too far away, and they kill off a decent amount of birds. It was a shame that they built the windmill farm in the middle of our most important breeding grounds for white tailed eagles.. Just one more thing to take into account when building these things be environmentally friendly. Especially when 99.9% of our electricity is produced with hydroelectric dam installations.

Windmill [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #131811
02/22/08 12:19 PM
02/22/08 12:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline
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US Western Continental Shelf

Re: Windmill [Re: hobiegary] #131812
02/22/08 09:39 PM
02/22/08 09:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Wow, that was very cool! I wonder how many RPM's it got up to before it came apart? Must have really been putting out some juice just before the blades flew off!!

Wouter, what do they use to keep them from overspeeding? Do they feather the blades (change the pitch) or do they have some sort of a brake system?


Blade F16
#777
Re: Windmill [Re: Timbo] #131813
02/23/08 01:56 AM
02/23/08 01:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Both are used, but I think on larger turbines only feathering is viable. Braking 2 MW relates to alot of heat and wear !

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Windmill [Re: Wouter] #131814
02/23/08 07:34 AM
02/23/08 07:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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But couldn't they just bring another generator on line to slow it down, kind of like the "regenerative brakes" on the electric cars and hybrids? Use the torque to drive more generators at the normal speed, vs. wasing the energy of a normal brake system.

I saw some very big blades going down the highway in Texas, these things were HUGE, I would guess at least 150 feet long and about 10 feet across the round base of the blade where it attatches to the hub. They were carried on a huge trailor, one behind each truck, I think I counted about 6 trucks heading north on I35 out of Ft. Worth back in August. Probably going up to North Dakota, I think there is a big wind farm up there. They must manufacture them somewhere in Texas? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


Blade F16
#777
Re: Windmill [Re: Wouter] #131815
02/24/08 08:38 PM
02/24/08 08:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 130
CA
Glenn_Brown Offline
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CA
Wouter,

Has anyone looked into active vibration dampening, a la J. C. Doyle et al.? ( http://www.cds.caltech.edu/doyle-fest/ ) Space platforms have similar problems, especially due to the lack of dampening in a vacuum.

--Glenn

Re: Windmill [Re: Glenn_Brown] #131816
02/25/08 03:22 AM
02/25/08 03:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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North-West Europe


I can't say.

The field of windturbine design is pretty big now and many people work there, I know only a small portion of them and even of those I only know a portion of what they have researched over the years.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Windmill [Re: Wouter] #131817
02/25/08 10:40 PM
02/25/08 10:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 90
South Carolina, USA
Corksfloat Offline
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Posts: 90
South Carolina, USA
A neighbor of mine designs them for GE and the cost per KW is one of the highest due to maintenance costs. Governments are subsidizing the technology to diversify in the expectation that the price of oil, coal, and environmental issues will make the technology viable over time.

Re: Windmill [Re: Corksfloat] #131818
02/26/08 04:47 AM
02/26/08 04:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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North-West Europe


Yes, indeed, and that is why the smart rotor concept is being researched as it promises to cut down on maintaince costs.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Windmill [Re: Wouter] #131819
02/26/08 06:56 AM
02/26/08 06:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
How big a windmill would I need to put on my roof to power say, half my demand at home? And this is DC power, right? And I would need an inverter to make it AC power, and I could also cover my roof with solar panels, below the windmill mast! And maybe even put up 5-6 windmills on the beach, and one at the end of the dock, to kill off those pesky birds that are always crapping on my boat and dock! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Blade F16
#777
Re: Windmill [Re: Timbo] #131820
02/26/08 02:36 PM
02/26/08 02:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
W
waynemarlow Offline OP
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Posts: 893
Not as big as you may think, here in the UK all electricity meters run backwards ie if you put more power in you turn the meter backwards. This is really good as most of the summer you will use less power than needed and could on the really good windy days be accruing bonus points ( meter going backwards ) on the cold winter days you then use up all those bonus points with extra heating etc.

As a wind turbine sceptic having just spent a large deal of time looking at green energy I have to say that the cost has fallen such that any house away from other houses and a known windy spot ( top of a hill or windy side of a valley ) should be looking at wind turbines, its nearly worthwhile now and with any more movement of the oil price its starting to look economic. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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