I hate to mention this, Pete, but it is hard for me to talk seriously to a chimp. Do you think you could change your avatar to resemble a human being? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sorry! No can do! That's an orangutan. In one of the (Malay?) languages it means "old man of the forest" or some such. Hence, it is an integral part of my persona.

Besides, he sails the same way I do.

Pete,

why do you say no to ISAF recognized/international status when we dont know all the pros/cons? I dont know enough about the matter to make a decision even if I asked about this on the open forum earlier ref: http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...9&an=0&page=3#Post123379

I have this feeling that there must be something I miss since "everybody" go with ISAF status except the 18foot skiffs. I think a pro/con analysis is what we need before we decide. Asking ISAF about the matter is probably also a good idea.

ALL of the information about getting ISAF Recognized or International Status is available at the ISAF web site, www.sailing.org

Wade through it, as I have, and come to your own conclusions.

I have done so several times earlier, but I was never satisfied with what I found out. It's a lot about the process and not much about what a class gains.

Rolf: Just a gut reaction. There has always been animosity between catamarans and the "traditional" sailing communities. The ISAF have dumped the Tornado, our oldest, most respected class, from the Olympics; and offered no alternative format. My conclusion is that they don't want us.

I find it very strange to be defending ISAF and ISAFs decisions! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
The Tornado process was a PR disaster for ISAF. The event committee which have both olympic sailors and other ISAF representatives had a very long and serious debate about which events would be the best for sailing and the games. They proposed both a multihull and a high performance dinghy for women (kind of a 49er for women). It was the highest decision making body in ISAF, the ISAF Council ( http://sailing.org/555.php ) which choose to disregard the proposal from their own expert group and toss the Tornado out with the womens high performanceskiff. We know the rest of the story and ISAF is still paying for it. As you can see ISAF Council dont have many well known sailors amongst them but they do represent their countries sailing associations.

Would you be opposed to actually checking out what "ISAF Recognized" and "ISAF International" status have to offer?

Multihulls were not singled out, we just ended up on the short end of the stick on 1 item where a group was asked to choose.

I had the same feeling about US sailing, especialy as they had a large influence in starting this whole issue. John Williams being intimately involved in a lot more of the aspects of it, since has convinced me that running with an established on-going group has some significant advantages to winging it on your own.

I am sure ISAF has some advantages to membership or they would not exist at all. The A class is 1 group we likely share the most in common with. Piet Saarberg would be 1 person I would feel could provide a pretty objective view on the advantages and disadvantages of membership due to his long term involvment with what the A class has done over the years.

It is alittle pre-mature right now, but as this is being discussed, maybe Hans could get him to put up a little post on a few of the pros and cons?

M

I forgot to mention one thing. Before the black day in Estoril I contacted the president of the norwegian sailing association to ask if they were going to support a multihull event in the 2012 games. He replied positively, and our vote did go for a multihull event. I think everybody who cared about the events in 2012 should have done the same. Not blaming anybody, especially not you in the US who had a real struggle with US Sailing, but voicing opinions in a polite manner with the decision makers is usually a very smart move.

I was musing over the webpage with ISAF Councils members, and suddenly it struck home that africa and the middle east was hardly represented..

Hey fellas.

I understand the perception that "ISAF doesn't want us," and I'd never imply that there aren't legitimate reasons for feeling that way. Currently, I'm much deeper into the whole process than I ever was before last year. At this point, I do not think that "they don't want us." In fact, I have found less of the attitude that "multihulls are different" within the ranks of volunteers at USSA and ISAF than I do at multihull fleet meetings. For what it may be worth in your debate, I find both USSA and ISAF have a good general regard of the multihull classes, though they do see us as a minority discipline. The Olympic decision was not about "how do we get rid of multihulls." It was a case of every nation voting self-interest over a representation of a variety of sailing disciplines. The situation is still very fluid and it is far from over.

With regard to ISAF recognized status, I would recommend you discuss the matter with your manufacturers - there is a fee per boat for builders of ISAF-recognized equipment, and some of the benefits to being a recognized class are to the factory (therefore less visible to owners). A healthy owner-controlled class should have an open dialogue with the builders about the future.

Another avenue that is just opening to the multihull community is the newly formed International Multihull Council. An introduction letter is likely to be published this week or next describing what led to the formation of the IMC, the objectives they've been working toward, and what they plan to do in the short- and long-term. The IMC will have Affiliate status with ISAF and will have personnel at ISAF meetings to represent multihull intrests. Class Associations and manufacturers will be getting letters soliciting support and membership. There have been some big things in the works for the last several months which are now ready to be rolled out.

Planning for the future is the best indicator that a Class is being well-managed. Way to go, F16. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I read the documentation of international / recognized class and I suggest that others do the same. Do we have any thoughts from our manufacturers?

JW: Good to hear from you. The news about the IMC sounds hopeful. Please keep us informed.

I noticed that Nacra are having a Worlds and Europeans with primarily boats that are not registered as an official ISAF class.
They call it a Nacra F18 Worlds but it will probably be 90% Infusions.
http://nacraeurope.com/news_details.php?id=88

I guess ISAF is more relaxed then we think?

Maybe someone from the F16 class could write up a comprehensive report outlining all the pros and cons of joining ISAF?

Nacra F18 is a an ISAF registered class...

Of course u are right, but the Infusion isn't (different boats IMHO).
(And I think we both know what is left of the original Nacra F18 fleet <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

Formula 18 is an ISAF International Class, designated as having multiple designers/builders. I suppose it would be the same for the Formula 16. And it is the same way for the A Class. I don't think there is any requirement that the individual designs within the formula class have to be ISAF classes in and of themselves.

Nacra f18 is the registered class, even though the design is updated the class retains its ISAF status.

Much the same as the 14ft Skiff...


For example, F18 is a registered class, but Nacra F18 and Hobie Tiger are also individualy registerd classes. So they are elligble to hold their own Worlds.

I've spent a good bit of time on the ISAF website today.

The pros and cons seem to me, subjective. Either you belong or you don't. I haven't yet found any benefit to be derived beyond what U.S. Sailing offers. There is, however, much more information than I can cover in a single day.

In any case, we may not have sufficient numbers for consideration.

You may want to read part 26 pp. 101-106.

.pdf]http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/2008ISAFRegulations_IN%20FULL-[4810].pdf

That's correct. Nacra and Hobie like to get International status for their own boats so they can hold world championships exclusively for those boats.

An F18 world championship, on the other hand, is open to ALL of the F18 designs.

In other words, if F16 became an International ISAF class, it would not be necessary for the Blade and the Stealth and the Viper, etc. to become International classes. But if the Blade wanted to be able to do one-design world championships, it would have to get International status for itself.