| Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING?
[Re: ]
#136558 03/17/08 11:12 AM 03/17/08 11:12 AM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,200 Vancouver, BC Tornado
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Posts: 1,200 Vancouver, BC | I am currently a member...but I am evaluating my renewal palns for this year.
I'd like to see a way to earmark my membership dues to my class or boat type of choice. That way US Sailing knows that this money should only/primarily be used to promote that form of sailing. They would also have a clearer picture of where there funding is coming from and can make better decisions than they have in the past.
Mike Dobbs Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
| | | Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING?
[Re: PTP]
#136559 03/17/08 11:31 AM 03/17/08 11:31 AM |
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 503 BrianK
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Posts: 503 | What do the membership dues fund?
Hey, how much does it cost teams to race in the actual Alter Cup? (not the qualifiers) I know the individuals racing have to pay for insurance which is pricey (although not having insurance would certainly be pricier). They have to pay for their own accomodations (unless a local is nice enough to house them). So what does USSailing actually provide other than their name- and the requirement that you must be a member to sail in it? I believe it costs the Alter Cup commitee $500/boat. So $5K per year out of a fund that was established specifically for this purpose. Im assuming the account has enough in it to generate $5K of interest per year. JW maybe can confirm this. The Alter Cup is certainly something positive for multihull sailors from US Sailing. Although it could just as easily be run from anothor organization as catsailors do the legwork (and if a comparable bugdet to pay the $5k could be found). | | | Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING?
[Re: Tornado]
#136560 03/17/08 11:33 AM 03/17/08 11:33 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | Mary used to run a US Sailing membership renewal for cats in a program called the "Golden Anchor" I think. Is that still the case Mary? Should we all pool our memberships to US Sailing and put "Multihull Membership" on it, so they know we are members and we do care about how much support we get, from them?
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING?
[Re: Jake]
#136562 03/17/08 11:36 AM 03/17/08 11:36 AM |
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,655 Portland, Maine ThunderMuffin
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Posts: 3,655 Portland, Maine | To me it sounds like much of the trouble you have in the US is becouse the catamarans sailors usually are not members of sailing clubs. If you have "flag officers" and the like, I can understand why as it sounds very much like "stiff upper lip" clubs. But staying unorganized sounds like a loosing proposition over time, with beaches closing and more and more laws becoming troublesome. Representation and organization have great value when you need it.
Heaven forbid I encourage creating another internet organizational entity, but whats stopping multihullers from doing the same thing that Sailing Anarchy or Scuttlefutts has done? A nationwide, online "yacht" club? What do I get out of it? p.s. that was slightly sarcastic. The honor of being in charge. Commodore! p.s. that was completely sarcastic :P | | | Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING?
[Re: PTP]
#136563 03/17/08 12:29 PM 03/17/08 12:29 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | How/why does it cost 500/boat? What does that 500$ pay for? The US Sailing Multihull Council provides $5,000 towards the charter boats for the Alter Cup. This money comes out of the Hoyt Jolly Fund and yes, it is scraped off the interest this fund generates each year.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING?
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#136564 03/17/08 12:29 PM 03/17/08 12:29 PM |
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,969 brucat
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Posts: 3,969 | Timbo- The Golden Anchor program for multihulls still exists, it is now coordinated by John Williams. As some have mentioned here, it is FAR from obvious how to join or renew from the website. Here's how to access the form: www.ussailing.org, under Racing, Sailboat Classes, Multihulls... At the bottom of that page, under Links, Golden Anchor Membership. Now, there is a caveat that I'm not sure is well known (I just found it on the website by accident yesterday). Technically, all clubs that have a GA program are required to charge the "differential fee" to non-members. I know that I sail at a lot of regattas, and not many of them do this anymore. It's (almost?) never in the NORs either, which I would think would be expected per the RRS (falls under Elibility). An interesting point would be, are all multihull classes expected to conform to this since the GA program is open to all multihull classes? Or, is that a bad assumption (is there a specific list of classes that are covered)??? As to the $500 per boat for the Alter Cup, that sounds reasonable. Running a week-long event for just 20 teams has to be insanely expensive on a per-team basis. Mike | | | Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING?
[Re: H17cat]
#136566 03/17/08 04:54 PM 03/17/08 04:54 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | imho USSA should focus on those few activities that require national scope and ignore everything else to keep costs low.
What USSA should do:
1) Represent the USA at the international level. The primary purpose of this representation should be to policially constrain the power of IYRU. 2) Assure that a common set of rules are used across the country(this was why NAYRU was founded, originally each area had its own set of rules) 3) Provide trained appeals judges. That's it. I think USSA should be able to accomplish this with a staff of 2 and a budget of <$1M.
What USSA should NOT do: 1) Run any regattas (including championships). Regattas are run by clubs and sanctioned by classes. By sponsoring regattas USSA is in direct conflict with its own constituents. The USSA ladder events are pale imitations of the real championships most competitors care about such as the <insert classs here> National Championships. 2) Teach sailing. Clubs and classes have great training programs. Once again USSA is competing with its own constituents, and doing a comparatively poor job of it. 3) Create a unified schedule. This is (and should be) a class and/or YRA issue. 4) Fund any sailors or sailing events out of membership dues. This includes ladder events, olympic events, olympic sailors, handicapped sailors, etc. If USSA wants to establish a seperately funded subsidiary that's fine, just don't use the dues or any facilities/equipment that is derived from dues. I find it offensive a mandatory tax I pay to race sailboats is used to pay other people to race sailboats. 5) Train judges and/or race committees (this should be the job of the YRA). 6) Fund the development of a handicaping system. The VPP/IMS/Americap debacle was disgraceful. USSA using hundreds of thousands of extorted dollars to purposely undercut establshed classes. From Sailing Anarchy and written by a big boat sailor in my region whom I have great respect for. I like his proposal. This would mean... No Alter qualifiers or championships. No Olympic coaches on the payroll No Olympic class regattas.... Leave that up to the International class to organize. No Junior Olympic /ISAF qualfying regattas. Again. leave it up to the international class to manage. No funding for the Portsmouth System. (See RYA proposal) No group policy for insurance to run regattas. (marketplace solutions no need for ussa sanctioned) No group policy for charters (leasing or purchasing) It would shift the emphasis to your RSA and club. Under these circumstances... I would be happy to be a mandatory member for a nominal fee. Then it would shift the work load to your RSA which will have to address the administrative issues of the sport in a manner that you could effect locally. These costs would be addressed locally and probably with mandatory membership fee. I would be happy to pay US Sailing 5 to 10 bucks for these services (mandatory to race) RSA (CBYRA in my case) for 45 bucks (mandatory to race) The RSA trains judges, trains RC, certificaton of junior sailing instuctution organizes schedule, maintains regional highpoints, runs the appeals process. place to go to have rc fixed. Yacht club and individual membership based. Membership enforced at the Yacht Club level ... when you want to race in your region ... you join. Other fees, Class dues Purpose to allow the class to run national and mid winter championships and what ever else they want to do.. Handicap fleet membership dues... (Not all racing is one design... this would support a handicap rating system of your choosing PHRF, Portsmouth or SCHRS what ever your region uses) Club dues /Regatta fees Comments/
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING?
[Re: brucat]
#136567 03/17/08 05:44 PM 03/17/08 05:44 PM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | Now, there is a caveat that I'm not sure is well known (I just found it on the website by accident yesterday). Technically, all clubs that have a GA program are required to charge the "differential fee" to non-members. I think that's kinda why the Multihull Council set up its own Golden Anchor Program years ago, since so many clubs and fleets don't have one. It gives ALL multihull sailors a way to join USSailing at a lesser cost. Plus if you DO go to a regatta put on by a club or fleet that charges the differential price, you have your membership card, so you get the lower price. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> | | | Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING?
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#136569 03/17/08 05:55 PM 03/17/08 05:55 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 215 Ohio TeamTeets
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Posts: 215 Ohio | Nearly all 501(c)(3) organizations tax forms 990 are available with free registration at guidestar.org . Search for "US Sailing" and they are about the 3rd link. It details where your money is going. For 2006, 7.8M in revenue, 6.8M in expenses. 5.8M is providing services: - 1.6M Olympic
- 1.9M Race Mangement
- 1.1M newsletter and communication with 34000 members
- 860k in keelboat and training
Keep in mind that not-for-profit doesn't mean they don't make profits. It means the profits are put back into the organization to pursue their public purpose.
Mike, Ohio Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
| | | Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING?
[Re: brucat]
#136573 03/18/08 02:08 PM 03/18/08 02:08 PM |
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 297 rexdenton
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Posts: 297 | There has to be something else included under this umbrella. It is completely unfathomable that is costs $1,900,000 to train and certify judges and ROs, "administer" handicaps and publish rules.
Mike
Its the stickers...
Nacra F18 #856
| | | Re: What would it take for you to join US SAILING?
[Re: rexdenton]
#136574 03/26/08 11:52 PM 03/26/08 11:52 PM |
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,304 Gulf Coast relocated from Cali... TeamChums
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Posts: 1,304 Gulf Coast relocated from Cali... | Why cant they update the portsmouth numbers. 2 years! C'mon man, is anybody awake in there? No offense John and Jake but I will think hard about renewal.
Lee Wicklund/Team Chums
Lee
Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
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