Ok, you guys are going to have quit quoting this nonsense because I don't see it normally.

What a baseless piece of crap claim!

If we want to briefly talk about the last cup - BMW/Oracle did have the technology...they just got spanked on the water tactically and IMHO it was a result of loading up the skipper with too much team management responsibility outside of driving the boat. Their boat had plenty of speed and they proved it again and again but dug too deep a hole off the start line dig out of.

This is going to be really interesting. Ellison has pulled the plug on the financial bathtub and I guarantee you the boat coming out their shed is going to be a very well refined, thoroughly designed, monster. Likewise for Alinghi though on some level, I don't think Bertarelli cares enough anymore to plan on the same level.

I know I'm going to regret this, but can you list the "new stuff" Alinghi has used in the AC?

Yep, that was what I was told back in the days of Playstations participation in the race and Fossets "round the world but not Jules Verne certified" record. First failed to finish and the second was put back in his place by the French only months later. Almost to the letter of what I had predicted months earlier.

To me BMW-Oracle is just another obscenely rich syndicate that thinks that you can just outspend your competition and expect to come out on top. To me, that is not interesting.

Explains a large part of my disinterest in the AC as well but that is another topic.

I'll be routing for the least moneyed syndicate that has be creative and balanced in their approach to the event (and checkbook).

And I really don't care what you guys all think of that.

Wouter

HAWT!

I WANT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But i think i need a bigger trailer too!

Call Marstrøm and order one, but you "might" need some sponsors and would probably be "branded" a pro as well. All well worth it <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

nothing like flying a hull 20' in the air!



It has to be weird, using a dagger board 10' tall

Su*ks to be them huh <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I had dinner in December with a member of BMWO who is now living in the PNW and Franck C has been working with the team for months, the build has been going on for some period of time in Washington and the boat will be quite interesting.

I wonder how big their "righting" bag is? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't care who you are rooting for - that's your own personal preference.

I fail to see how Playstation factors into this discussion - everyone, including Fossett, knew the boat wasn't ready for "The Race" and with regards to it not being ratified by the Jules Verne group; Fossett and his crew CHOOSE to not have it ratified because it was a couple of fat French dudes demanding he pay them $50,000 (if I remember correctly) just to apply "Jules Verne" name to his record. Technically they were supposed to pay the fee before the record attempt but the Jules Verne committee offered them another opportunity to pay up before they finished. Fossett held a vote on board the boat and it was nearly unanimous against paying the fee. Again though, what does this have to do with the current America's Cup?

How about that list of Alinghi innovations that exceeds the BMW/Oracle effort you claim was so superior?

Remember those air filled inflated battens that everyone started using? That was BMW airbag technology adapted to the boat...let's hear it.

and a Pitchpole = a trip around the world, not just the forestay

Dude - it's the America's Cup. Everybody out there (who is actually a contender) is really competing for the title of "I've got the biggest pile of money to burn" and the perceived status that goes with it - if you think any of the syndicates involved is any different you're sadly mistaken. Some are certainly more effective than others, but in the end they're all playing the "mine's bigger" game. That we get to watch a sailboat race of some kind is a side effect.

It is always satisfying to see the "under dogs" win, but they came to the game with very deep pockets too.

I laugh at the money stuff, enjoy the race, and root for the team closest to being the home team. Home team or not, I find myself rooting for whichever team falls behind in any given race and marvel when they get back in the hunt, and appreciate their effort.

Also, the Fossett thing has been beaten to death, but to compare Ellison with Fossett is not even close to being correct.

Someone will ask this question, it might as well be me.

Why not a proven design, but bigger? Pardon my ignorance, but an Extreme 40, to me, looks like a big I-20. So why not a 90' version of the same?

Boats dont scale like that Pete. Aero and hydrodynamics scale differently, and the loads scale like crazy with increased size. E.g. banana foils and foiling C cats are not fast compared to the top boats, but a foiling moth are really fast compared to a scow moth.
If you go back to the '88 challenge, the USA team buildt what might be considered a scaled up C cat for the cup. But what they really did was get the best C-cat brains and put them in a room with some really good engineers and builders (Morelli, Rutan etc). They picked the best aspects from the boats they knew and adapted this to the new platform.

Well <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. . . that's what I meant. The simplest boat should have an advantage though. More strings to pull, more strings to break. More adjustments to make, more adjustments to make poorly.

Foils. Bannana gilhickies. All stuff to get wrong and fail at the worst possible moment.

And while were in cat' ecstacy, who will be the first to blow a tack in AC competition? Who will be the first to pitch-pole?

I really, really, hope we dont see any catastrophic failures in this match. That would be really, really, bad PR for multihulls. It dont matter how many monos have broken their masts, lost their keels, folded in the middle, almost sunk when heeling over etc. No catastrophic failures please!
The mono world still have their ideas about non tactical, non safe, non tacking, non.. whatever multihulls. We want to see exciting, close and tactical racing with no failures <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think 4 (two complete sets) of high aspect dagger boards failed catastrophically last week end.

Three Points

- It would not surprise me to not see a lot of downwind sail area added to these boats. They're going to be sailing such crazy hot angles they will be developing a TON of apparent wind. Due to that, I would not be surprised to see solid wing masts.

- BMWO had TONS of speed but kept getting themselves into terrible starts. They ended up changing the rudder for better maneuverability (to get out of the piles of sh*t they were getting put into in prestart) and lost a lot of their speed. I agree with Jake it was a mistake to overload the helm with on-shore duties.

- With regards to failure, I don't know who said it, but someone said, "the best AC boat is the one that falls apart on the way back to the harbor after winning the final race". Build 'em light enough to survive till the end and that's it.

This is going to be interesting and like NOTHING any of us have seen before. I just hope it does not have the same wreched stench that last catamaran AC had.

Agree on every point but the solid wing sail. Perhaps I'm wrong and maybe they are well planning such a monster but to boost downwind speed additional headsails would be needed and I question the reliability of building such a wing vs. the speed...well...what kind of speed difference IS there between a soft and rigid wing sail? What difference did the C cats experience....man, that would be something - a 90' cat with a rigid wing...whoooo.

Well, it was enough that the AC Cat development teams of the 80's had soft and hard rigged boats... When it came time to choose they picked the bigger of the two guns. I'll have to pull my book on the subject out and see what they said a/b the decision. Was it really speed or did they just want to show off?? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Also, think from a tech stand point... we've come a LONG way since that last AC cat.