And not being able to trapeze is bad when you have kids, because they usually LOVE to trapeze. I'm going to put my trapeze wires (if I can find them) back on my Wave so my grandchildren can try it. And we still have the jib here somewhere.

There are pros and cons for every boat... but if you want some more racing abilities than the rotomolded boats offer (wave, getaway) I am sure you would do fine with almost any 16 foot (5 meter) boat.. i.e. Hobie, G-Cat, Prindle.... Just realize that you need to pay attention to weather if you have young crew aboard... as these boats can power up with gusts...

Here you go Mary <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I start mine at 6 (this is not her, got it of thebeachcats) , now has 9 years of experience and loves it. Will email it to you. Can't do to file is to large and url doesn't work anymore

Doug

Going to the 20 is like getting off a scooter onto a Ducati 900 grand prix bike in the wet with a sticky accelerator.

If you flip, and you will, just stay with the boat and keep your son safe.

In 12/15 knots of off shore wind that pop up on a quite day you will not get home.

I would suggest you get a ride on one and flip it before you buy it. If you want your 5 year old going over the top of that arc, go for it.
I am a firm believe in an attrition rate to life.

Check out the comments of the AC mono guys about multis.

Think about how much of this choice is about your ego and not your boys enjoyment.

I don't want to be a total kill-joy so I will say that if you have some GOOD skills you might get away up to a 16 with some judicious decision making before leaving shore.

Unfortunately the H16 is over powered and hard to right so a more cultured 16 would be a good choice.

Jeff2,
Maybe I missed this somewhere, but is your wife a sailor? At all? That could make a BIG difference in your decision about what boat to get. Has she been reading this thread, and the original one?

You're not. The options are supposed to be mutually exclusive.

Matt, are you saying that you can get the boat without the wings and with trapezes instead?

"Even a Hobie 18"? I won't dwell on that...

The Miracle 20 is indeed a racing boat: It has a lighter hull, so it will take less beach wear. It can get flippy. Why not go to a local sailing Fleet in your area and try a few of them? I know if you were in Buffalo NY, we'd walk you around the boats and explain each one of them to you.

Wyatt

The first time we capsized our Hobie 18 the wind was only 5 mph. We were slowly on our way out to the race course and not really paying attention to anything and our sheets were cleated, because the wind was so light. Well, a little puff of wind came along from a different direction, and over we went. Then, of course, it was back to 5 mph, and it was extremely difficult for the two of us to right the boat. At that time we were sailing at minimum crew weight of 285 lbs. And we were both very experienced catamaran sailors (or so we thought <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />).

That's my understanding from Matt Miller.

Skipping the 20 part, launching off a trailer SHOULD be simply untying the boat from the ground, installing the jib, backing it down the ramp, pulling it to the dock, and putting the main up. If you stay focused, that could take 10 minutes, and no more than 20. Same thing coming in, plus some additional time to dig out the keys and go get the car. Pretty easy to winch up the trailer, even with cradles vs rollers, although someone might need to guide the bow.

As to the 20, I don't know of a single newbie couple who bought one and still sail it. If you flip, will your wife and kid laugh or cry? If they will laugh, go for it.

Thanks for all the great advice. Bobbing in the water next to my wife and son looking at our capsized Hobie 20 or NACRA would be a debacle.

I sailed a Wave with my son about a month ago in Turks and Caicos. He loved it. I'd like a bit more room so 3 of us aren't sitting on top of one another. I'm now strongly considering a Getaway. I'd probably remove the wings to start.

Thanks again,

Jeff

Sound choice!... Why remove the wings? they are a fabulious feature!

Glad to here you made that choice.

Just something to keep in mind with little ones.

I had been taking my than 7 year old daughter out on our h16 in really light wind (because I was a newbie) I did this several times and never had a real problem or thought twice about it. Last year, (my second season), I was out solo in medium-light winds 8 to 10 MPH and got knocked off the boat. Yes the boat took off several yards (probably 40) and stopped. while I was swimming back to my boat, I started thinking, what if my daughter had been on the boat with me?

She probably would have been safe at first, but, what if... I know we can play the what if game all day so I wont do that now.

Even tho all of my kids are great swimmers and love the water, my new rule is, if they can not think and react, with, "What do I do now", there are 2 people that can handle the boat aboard.

every child learns different! I know I have 4 from ages 8 to 19.

Enjoy your new boat and keep safety first.

Sam

I agree that safety comes first, especially with kids on board... so teach them how to un-cleat the lines... what to do if you fall off (or they do). make them wear their PFD's at all times (as should you) and sail only under control... that being said.. The drive to the beach is much more dangerous than the sailing.

I was sailing solo (sunfish)at 10 years...

I'll take my 4yo on the cat, but only with another competent person on board. Their job is to take care of the munchkin. If the munchkin falls off, I fully expect the "crew" to jump in after him.

This rule is the same for the skiff as well as the cat.

Agreed with Zilla, be safe.

I don't want to confuse you about this but other 16s are easily right-able and less of a tank than the Getaway.

Something about children on boats.
There was a Novascotian here several years ago circumnavigating the planet.
He adopted an Ethiopian boy and a Chinese girl as he went.
The kids were 5 and 3 when here and have never seen such water-wise urchins.
When kids are on board, teach, teach, teach!

One can get the Getaway without wings, without traps, can get it with wings only, with wings and traps, any combo. Also Getaway comes with mast float and is easier to right than the TheMightyHobie18 by far. With the assistance of the wind you can right it solo, I weigh 150 lbs.

I too will go on record about the Getaway.

I can understand the benefits and attractions of the Hobie Wave, but this doesn't extent to the Hobie Getaway.

It is HEAVY : 390 lbs = 177 kg (were typical 16 foot beach cats are 140-150 kg)
It has quite alot of sail area = 180 sq. ft. (More then typical 16 beach cats like Nacra 500, Prindle 16 etc)
And that beam in front (under the jib bridles) is a pitchpole waiting to happen if ever it hits the water surface or catches a wave.
The mast has no diamond wires and has to be relatively heavy to keep teh 180 sq. ft.up. (less ease of righting ?)

Even if it is easier to right then a TheMightyHobie18 with the help of the wind that still makes it a PITA to right. The Hobie 18 was never an easy boat to right in my book and as Mary has written earlier if you flip it in little wind you'll be working hard to right it. In that book it is no different to say the Hobie 16 and it is harder to right then the Nacra 500 and several other glass beach cats of the same 16 foot (5.05 mtr) length.

While the Wave fills a nice niche the Getaway is nothing more then an inferiour 16 foot beach cat with beer coolers and rotomoulded hulls that are abuse resistant.

When put side by side with say a Nacra 500 the Getaway pretty much looses on all points. As such I really don't understand its attractiveness, but that may just be me.

Wouter

I would rather get a Nacra 500 but there are no used ones near me. There is a Getaway available. Sailors and dealers have indicated that owners love their 500s and 520s so there is no resale market. As a family experiment, I can't afford a new 520. If all enjoy the Getaway this Summer, then I'd likely try to buy a new Nacra 520 next year. But I need to start with used in case the family is unhappy sailing.

Family recreation is a multi-dimensional problem <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jeff