Whoops, I should have said "winglet" rather than "canard." I was refering to the winglets used at the tips of wings to reduce drag that is induced by a wing tip vortex.
"grin"
Triangular Mast Head Float?

But I guess that the location of the masthead bobber is too far from the leech of a square top sail to be used as a winglet.

GARY

I considered to buy a hobie bob, for about US140, but I reconsidered and bought one like this:


Just tie it to the sail, it goes up with the sail. The handles are pretty useful for tying

That looks like a Hobie "Bucky".

That's kind of what I thought you meant. Somebody just recently was telling me that Suicide sailors at one time were using endplates on the tops of their masts to reduce vortex drag at the top of the sail (or something like that). But it did not seem to do anything to improve performance, so they stopped using them.

The key to not turtling, though, is to seal the mast. Back in the day (like 6 years ago), I had a Hobie 16 that had met a power line in a storm. The line burnt a hole in the mast, maybe a 1.5 inches in diameter. Everytime the boat would flip, we'd have to get on the righting line immediately, or the boat would turtle in no time because the mast would fill up with water. I sold the boat shortly after, so no longer my problem. Anyway, I have an I-20, and the mast is sealed, and it takes it awhile to turtle. I can also solo-right the boat. I have a hobie-bob sitting around, but I'm never gonna use it...it just looks so amateur. I understand if you are a beginner that you need the peace of mind it provides, but once you've learned to right the boat even if turtled, then you've got it.

You have to realize that not everyone sails in 30' deep water. Driving you mast and sails into the bottom is a little hard on equipment. You are correct that a sealed mast is important, but for some of us that sail on shallow waters, a mast float is good insurance. Probably not a "must have" but I'm glad I have it.

Jack - proud to be "so amateur" looking
Fort Loramie, Ohio
P18 with Prindle Bob

Saying that using a bob looks "amateur" is like saying that bicycle riders who use helmets look amateur, even though the opposite is true.

A masthead float is a very important safety feature, and it is too bad everybody doesn't use them.

Even if you don't care about your own safety, you should use a masthead float if you ever take children out on your beach cat.

I thought I was so clever until I saw the pics posted in this thread with the CO2 tank. For the RTI race that was blown away last fall I stuffed two surplus airline PFD's into a bag. Fresh CO2 cartridges are in both PFD's. In the event of a pitchpole they will be inflated and hoisted on a dedicated halyard to the top of the mast. If I can keep the mast up (foam inside the mast), I MAY have a chance to recover from the feared pitchpole of my little trimaran but it will also require the use of a drogue (longer story for a later thread). I hope I never have to use it and with the price of CO2 cartridges, I haven't tested it, yet.

The good thing is that I have two extra PFD's on board to use for whatever or whenever they may be needed to be pressed into service.

I am here reminded that the Rave trimarans came without their masts being sealed, allowing rather discomforting pitchpoling. I personally rescued several of them at an important regatta. Even more disconcerting was the cavalier attitude of some owners toward mast sealing beforehand, as they stated that it was neither important nor necessary. I say it was and is.
There is so much stuff hanging off a Rave, why would it need a drogue?

I had a friend of mine that got stuck for a couple of hours turtled on a Viper 21 (21' sport monohull) off Hilton Head. He had to wait until a powerboat would help them pull the boat back on it's side. By then the keel-stepped mast had warbled a big hole in the top of the deck. A little later while cranking up the keel in preparation for putting it on the trailer, the eye pulled out of the top of the keel and it went straight to the bottom.

We later talked about how he might have had some luck by hoisting a couple of life vests or the throwables he had on board up the spinnaker halyard...hindsight is 20/20.

With the kind of beam on those Raves, do the masts have a chance of keeping the boat from going turtle?

Raves go over frontwards-- from flying out of the water at speed if altitude is poorly controlled, then coming down nose first. Result is a rapid, acute dive, as the inverted T-foils hit first and present a negative angle of attack while still going fast. The center hull fills immediately, stern is straight up.

OK....but do they stay there (whether it be on it's nose or on it's side) or do they turtle naturally?

Mary,
I would not compare a Hobie Bob to a bicycle helmet, it is more comparable to bicycle training wheels.
Like training wheels, it simplifies a potentially hazardous situation, while diminishing performance.
A Bob makes it more difficult to step a mast, causes greater pitching motion and makes a boat more prone to flipping.
A bicycle helmet has minimal effect on bike or rider performance.

Sam,
I wasn't comparing a bob to a bicycle helmet. It was just to illustrate that in both cases some non-users think of users as wimps. I don't think it is good to discourage people from using safety features by saying it makes them look like amateurs.

If you had seen as many boats turtling, many instantaneously, as I have over the past 16 years, maybe you would feel differently -- especially, as I said, if you are taking children or grandchildren out on your boat.

Sam and Jake, I am planning on putting a mast float on my H17. My reasoning? I don't want to have to watch a crew drown as the boat turtles, and they are trapped in lines or wires. I don't know how this happens, but have read about it on the old forum. I would've thought it happenning once would make everyone put floats on. I had one on my old 17 and wasn't bothered by the extra weight. It certainly eased righting on that boat. I have only turtled boats twice, both times were on a 16. I don't know if I could've gotten her back on her side solo, and wouldn't want to chance it on my 17.

Hey,

Don't drag me into this - I have nothing against the Hobie Bob...it's just that his brother 'Bill' up there looks kind of funny.

Usually the first thing I do when we capsize is to make sure neither of us is under the sails and mast, then check to make sure nobody sustained any injuries, and then try to keep the boat from going turtle. So far, the F18 has prooven very resistant to turtling even without a Bob or Bill.

Here are my throughts on the mast head float. I don't think they are for all boats and sailing conditions. Spin boats seem to pitch pole more than turn over on there side (or at least I do)and I think the mast float would put a lot of stress on the mast when fliping. Sometimes you want to turtle the boat. In a Worrell leg a few years ago we were in a bad storm 50 to 60 mph winds with hail and turned the boat over while tacking to get closer to shore. We sat on the hull waiting for the worst to blow over and the boat just righted itself throwing us off and fliping over on its other side. We turtled the boat after that to keep from drifting so fast and waiting for the worst to blow over. I have turtled several different kinds of boats and don't think it is a big deal (unless you are in shallow water) to right the boat even with my wife and we have to add weight to the boat.

I agree with Brian, that´s a good reason to put a mast float on any kind of boat, not just cats. Years ago, my father turtled a LaserII and found himself underwater unable to move, because the tiller was inside his lifevest. Fortunately he was calm enough to unmount the tiller, because his crew was not able to help him.

What a silly statement to say that having a Bob on your mast looks amateur. It's a safety device!!

I'm sure there are still people out there that think wearing personal flotation devices look amateur.

I'd say if you feel "amateur" because of a Bob you're probably a moron anyway and should stick to land. Did the guy who said this also say his mast met power lines in a storm?????!!!!!!

I rest my case.