2 weeks ago i saw a guy fall off his Dart18 and it took off. I picked him up and chased down his cat.

Later he talked about using a retractable dog leash as a tether..

What do people usually use and where do they teather to?

Ditto here!!! I took a P16 out last night by myself and even though I can right the boat single handed, I still tethered myself to the boat in the same method that Dan had mentioned.

See, I'm not looking at this as an "I'm macho, I don't need it" thing. It looks to me like more of a safety hazard than a preventative.

Here is typical equipment used for tethers.
http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d312000/e310335.asp

Note that on big boats the tether is intened to never allow you to leave the boat. You should be tied such that you can't make it all the way to the water. On our boats we're required to get out beyond the hull, hence typical tether mentality does not work here.

So... say Robbie was tethered... but the boat didn't flip. How does that story end?

I tried a tether a few times and it was easy to use and didn't get in the way. For length probably 10'?

I think that the potential of injury caused by a tether is far less than the potential life or boat savings. I just can't see any obvious ways that the tether could hold you under. Worst case scenario, just slip off your harness. (if you wear your harness over top of everything else)

I think in that particular case with the carabineer and mainsheet setup, in moderate conditions, the boat would have rounded up and flipped, saving his event. I think it should be left to the sailor's discretion to use a tether-like setup or not. Sometimes I'd want to have that second chance to get back to the boat (I used something like that on the 4.3 for distance racing) and other times I can see offshore Tybee/Worrell sailors (one of which I am not) absolutely not wanting to be secured to a cartwheeling boat that is tumbling downwind in a whiteout squall. That's why there are locator beacons and strobes on every sailor and not attached to the boat.

You could use a quick release that could be undone under load to escape being dragged.

We used something similar to the Wichard system. We took about 15 feet of 5/16" line, removed the core, inserted bungee inside, and attached a snap shackle to the end. The bungee kept the line length short on the boat, and snap shackle allowed you to release yourself under tension if you got tangled up. Never fell off the boat and used them...

I know this is a fear that people seem to have, but has anybody ever heard of this actually happening to anybody -- boat cartwheeling multiple times while they were tethered?

People know the dangers of what they are doing. If they don't want to be attached and want to watch their boats sail away with out them then I say let em'. I think being tethered is an excellent idea when there isn't another boat, or help readily available, but requiring something is another story.

It is all in the way you word it I guess.
Would or should it be "Suggested"? "Recommended"? or "Required"?

If it is required and the tether itself causes an unfortunate outcome as outlined in previous posts is the organizing authority liable because they "Required" the tether that caused the problem?

If you burn up in a firey car crash, is the government liable beacause it is against "the law" to drive a car without a fastened seatbelt?

Maybe we should also include a rule that sailors be "required" to wear helmets.... I'm sure many more sailors have been knocked silly by the unexpected jybe than have been seperated from their boat because of not having a tether.

We could argue both sides of the issue till we are blue in the face (no pun intended for you cold water sailors) and still not have the perfect one size fits all answer.

I say that the regatta organizer consider the issue, make a "suggestion" or a "recommendation", and then leave it up to the individual sailor as to what he/she decides to do in any particular set of circumstances.

Sailors by their very nature are independant thinkers and resent/resist being TOLD what to do.

I have rescued experienced A-cat sailors who were unexpectedly abandoned by their boats in a smart breeze and big waves: Charlie Johnson said he was "flicked like a bugger off your finger" in a fast pitchpole. Swimming in the middle of Galveston Bay for hours is not my idea of fun- right, Bob?
A-cats probably won't drag the skipper dangerously after crashing if you are tethered, but a capsized A-cat will definitely go away faster than you can swim in wind. They ain't no handles on the top of the sail- Zip- you slide down it- and the cat is gone! I keep my mainsheet wrapped around a hand: cat's lack of weight and momentum is good in this case. Sailing with a buddy to keep your eye on is also a safety item.

How about a retractable type tether that connects to the trap wire. If you get seperated, the trap bungee will snap and allow plenty of room for the sailor to stay clear of the boat until he/she regains composure. (?)

Eric

and.. the weight of a sailor in the water attached to the houndswill force a boat to capsize. No risk of being dragged under if the boat trys to sail away because the hounds are 28 feet in the air.

I was thinking about this just the other day. I want to be able to sail solo or with inexperienced crew, and do it safely.

What's the best way to tether yourself in such a situation? Put a carabiner on the end of the mainsheet and clip it to your harness? I guess a hangmans-noose bungee'd off the trapeze for the crew, right ;-) I'm looking for instructions, because I have no idea how it's generally done, much less, what works.

Dennis

Dennis, 2 thoughts on your post

1. I always attach my bitter ends of my mainsheet and traveler sheet so I can control them both from the wire (and so the main can't run out of the blocks). BUT perhaps a carabineer that simply runs freely through the main/trav attached to my harnes might work.

That being said... I have seen people fall overboard... hold the mainsheet... and as the boat takes off... they are pulled through the water and end up sheeting in the main... increasing the boat speed. I have seen people* dragged at 10knots... only to let go of their boat as it rockets off! -

Conversely after you sheet it in all the way (while being dragged though the water), if you are lucky... your boat can capsize without any weight on it. I am sure this is better that it taking off and hitting something.



2.crew??? Who cares if they fall over? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



*I have done the mainsheet climb back up my boat 2 times.... both times I went for a swim were due to operator error, but it happens.

if you do clip yourself in, use a snap shackle, not a caribiner. You can't undo a biner under load but you can with a snap shackle.

good call ptp for sure snap shackle also note make sure the attachment point is somwhere on your front side above the nipples. you don't want to be dragged backwards. I used to use a heavy duty boggie board leash (forearm attachment). never had to use the boggie leash, but almost killed myself using a surfboard leash (ankle) getting draged backward until finally the boat rounded up. I know common sence.

The main goal to stay with the boat. If you are in the water, let the boat capsize. I think that remaining attached to the trapeze with the return bungee snapped offers safety and connection.

The hard part about this is when you reach that point of no return when you know you are going over. I am used to unhooking myself unconsciously from the trap so that when I do go over I have an exit strategy that doesn't involve going into/through the sail. That is my main issue with trying to tether myself to the boat. I sail in relatively protected waters so I have not really given it a lot of thought before. Robi described a system he uses with a snap shackle I believe which he thinks works pretty well. He shackles himself into the loop of mainsheet/traveler.

I can't go back and change my vote, even though the question has changed.

My answer to the present question, "Do you think that the sailors in a W1k/T500 race should be required to be tethered to the boat" is "no, I don't think that long distance racing contestants be required to do such a thing."

I require myself to tether to the boat when I am sailing distance ocean sailing and I always encourage my crew to do the same.

I've been in some situations where it did matter. If the worst had happened, then you'd all be saying how stupid it was of me to tie myself to the boat. As it is, I saved myself and helped to save my boat from being pounded by waves against big rocks.

It could go either way and that is why a sailor deserves to make his own decision. My experience in the conditions that I have sailed in will show that I should stay tethered. I can't speak for those sailing in different areas where the conditions differ from my local conditions.

I sail alone in the ocean, ... a lot! I wouldn't dare let that boat get away from me. Falling off unexpectedly, is exactly when that can happen. I have had some very close calls that could have ended up with me floating along on my PFD, miles from shore.

You should, at the least, keep a death grip on the main sheet. Insisting on not becoming separated from the boat has saved me from a 5-mile swim in 64ºF water a few times. (see DUMB butt maneuver, the Dragging Under My Boat, Automatic Sheeting System maneuver)

Think through all of the possible scenarios that you can envision, imagine. Find a way to deal with every scenario and be prepared to deal with all of those potential situations. Carry two knives, a VHF radio, a whistle, a mirror, and a flare or two. Don't forget a bottle of water too.

Two knives? Yes, carry one that is easy to get to and consider the fact that it will probably be gone because those easy to get to places are also "easy to get knocked off and go overboard places."

Carry a reliable back-up self rescue knife in a place where the water and wind won't steal it yet, a place where you can absolutely get it when you are all pumped up on fear-hormones.

Being an experienced underwater sportsman can be a good asset to have when it comes to self rescue from an open-water catamaran accident. Go do some body-surfing, scuba diving (NAUI 1972), skin diving, salvage diving, or other underwater sports or work that will train you to find your way out of an underwater tangle.

Being tied up in a surging kelp forest can be a very rewarding experience; particularly if you learn to escape without using a knife. Slow the panic and expedite the recovery! Get away smoothly without drowning.

Being tangled in rope, go for your knife as you find a way to get back to the surface and/or slither out of a tangle.

Yes, I do connect to the boat. You may or may not choose to do so. Think about what happens next and be ready to face the consequences of 'not wearing the tether' and also, those consequences of wearing it.

Don't be caught off-guard; have a survival game plan already in mind.

GARY