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Re: back-friendly harness [Re: Timbo] #143652
05/21/08 12:44 PM
05/21/08 12:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 164
fort Myers, FL
arievd Offline
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arievd  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 164
fort Myers, FL
Timbo, from a biomechanical perspective the most efficient placement of the hook is closest to the body's Center of Mass (COM), which is located in front of the sacral bone (or S2). This happens to be the approximate location of the hook for most harnesses. The further you place the hook away from the COM, the more muscle action is needed to stabilize the body while on the wire, or more elaborate support mechanisms will be needed. If you would move the hook placement higher on the trunk, you would need more muscle activity of your lumbar extensors and other back stabilizers to stabilize your spine, and over the course of a day this would probably lead to more low back fatigue/pain.

Last edited by arievd; 05/21/08 12:47 PM.

Arie
Hobie 16 111812
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: back-friendly harness [Re: arievd] #143653
05/21/08 01:00 PM
05/21/08 01:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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Detroit, MI
Uh, and in case you couldn't figure out from that post, Arie is a Physical Therapist.

Re: back-friendly harness [Re: mbounds] #143654
05/21/08 01:34 PM
05/21/08 01:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 164
fort Myers, FL
arievd Offline
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arievd  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 164
fort Myers, FL
Sorry....couldn't contain myself! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by arievd; 05/21/08 01:38 PM.

Arie
Hobie 16 111812
Re: back-friendly harness [Re: mbounds] #143655
05/21/08 01:34 PM
05/21/08 01:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Thanks Arie. Many years ago (1984) I had a windsurfing harness that had the hook up higher, near the chest, no butt support of course but I was thinking of something similar with a butt buckett as well as chest wrap around, put the hook half way between the two locations.

Last edited by Timbo; 05/21/08 01:35 PM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: back-friendly harness [Re: Timbo] #143656
05/21/08 01:43 PM
05/21/08 01:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 2,584
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Tim: I don't think a waist windsurfing harness is going to work, with windsurfing you are mostly in an upright position.
Maybe a seat trapeze harness will work, I would definetly try to wear mine in an emergency though:
http://www.pro-limit.nl/displayitemv6comp.php?item_id=4482

Re: back-friendly harness [Re: Timbo] #143657
05/21/08 01:48 PM
05/21/08 01:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 164
fort Myers, FL
arievd Offline
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arievd  Offline
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fort Myers, FL
Yeah, I remember those...
That could work, providing that there is contineous support of the spine along the back to prevent too much muscle action. One of the problems might be that this back support would need to be fairly rigid beween the chest piece and bucket, otherwise the area of the back opposite of where the hook is located would take a lot of loading. That rigidity that might make it more difficult to move around. Most windsurfers seem to have gone to lower placed hooks with the change in technique and technology.

Last edited by arievd; 05/21/08 01:56 PM.

Arie
Hobie 16 111812
Re: back-friendly harness [Re: Tony_F18] #143658
05/21/08 03:16 PM
05/21/08 03:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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I was thinking about one of the waist models but with a butt sewn on so it wouldn't slide up. Click on their "waist" models. Yeah, it might be to stiff to move around on the tramp when you have to snuff the spinn, etc.


Last edited by Timbo; 05/21/08 03:20 PM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: back-friendly harness [Re: Timbo] #143659
05/22/08 09:14 PM
05/22/08 09:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 308
Reno NV
R
Rhino1302 Offline
enthusiast
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 308
Reno NV
I've always wondered why nobody made an integrated harness/PFD. Maybe the Coast Gaurd approval is too expensive for the volume of harness sales?

Re: back-friendly harness [Re: Rhino1302] #143660
05/23/08 09:19 AM
05/23/08 09:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
old hand
mikekrantz  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
exactly. it doesn't even make business sense for most pfd's

Re: back-friendly harness [Re: Timbo] #143661
05/23/08 09:41 AM
05/23/08 09:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Timbo,

Can't you run your shoulder strap adjustment loop over your PFD? I think I have that same harness (magic marine - the "pre" worrell name I believe), and I run the strap over the PFD on that side, so it's right there when I need to snug or loosen it...

But, all that adjusting does distract one from the sailing...


Jay

Re: back-friendly harness [Re: waterbug_wpb] #143662
05/25/08 11:30 PM
05/25/08 11:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
W
warbird Offline
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Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
I have often thought of just getting a new PDF and having a sail-maker incorporate into a harness. Two separate units is nonsense.

Re: back-friendly harness [Re: Jake] #143663
05/26/08 07:38 PM
05/26/08 07:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 266
UK
Cheshirecatman Offline
enthusiast
Cheshirecatman  Offline
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Posts: 266
UK
I have the previous version of the Aquata Hydro. It is great for short course round the cans and is no inconvenience at all to wear when the likelyhood of use is 0.1%. However for longer legs my old equipe really takes some beating. The best suggestion I can make is take your normal sailing kit down to the next boat show and try the wares of the exhibitors out. It's alright saying one model is better than the rest but proper fitting is of equal importance. It is not easy to do this with with mail order, but if any supplier is worth his salt he should be prepared to ship a couple of 'best guess' sizes on information given and accept the unwanted item(s)for refund. Also, a comfortable fit over a wetsuit is not always a comfortable fit over a drysuit.

Cheshirecatman

Re: back-friendly harness [Re: arievd] #143664
05/28/08 06:01 AM
05/28/08 06:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
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Posts: 3,348
I've been thinking about this arrangement for some time. http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/146643-Telltails.jpg

Does anyone know more about it?

Last edited by Tikipete; 05/28/08 06:04 AM.
Re: back-friendly harness [Re: fin.] #143665
05/28/08 10:46 AM
05/28/08 10:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
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2017 F18 Americas Site
Quote
I've been thinking about this arrangement for some time. http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/146643-Telltails.jpg

Does anyone know more about it?


Pete:

What is the picture telling us? What are we supposed to be paying attention to?

Re: back-friendly harness [Re: fin.] #143666
05/28/08 01:12 PM
05/28/08 01:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
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Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Quote
I've been thinking about this arrangement for some time. http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/146643-Telltails.jpg

Does anyone know more about it?

A poorly trimmed jib? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Re: back-friendly harness [Re: Dan_Delave] #143667
05/28/08 03:57 PM
05/28/08 03:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Quote
Quote
I've been thinking about this arrangement for some time. http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/146643-Telltails.jpg

Does anyone know more about it?


Pete:

What is the picture telling us? What are we supposed to be paying attention to?


Look where and how the trap line attaches to the harness. I appears to be a small line that goes from the hook to the shoulder straps. The attachment point seems to slide along that line.

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> On second glance, that is just the trap bungy! Still, I think I'll try to cobble something together.

Last edited by Tikipete; 05/28/08 04:01 PM.
Re: back-friendly harness [Re: fin.] #143668
05/28/08 04:12 PM
05/28/08 04:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
The crew is using the wrong trap also, its much easier for crew to use the aft one.

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