WHA......?! Sorry for the late arrival on the thread. I must be Rip Van Winkle.

John Williams having a crisis moment at this juncture is earth shaking and left me speechless yesterday.

Seems we are at an important crossroads. Go with the evil you know or head down an uncharted path. Not an easy decision and it needs to be made collectively, making it an even bigger challenge. Wow.

I'm not sure which way I lean yet. But a point on the "break away" path, if I may. It doesn't have to be communicated as a turning the back, cold shoulder, blowing off US Sailing. It can simply be stated that this other organization meets more needs or exceeds the current benefits offered by US Sailing for the multihull community, so we're just comparison shopping and buying from a different store, so to speak. It doesn't have to be a rejection of the "old" store. Just an affirmation that we've found a better deal someplace else. A place we decide to build ourselves. Doesn't come across so negative that way. Don't burn your bridges if you don't have to.

I have to think this thing through, because as a sailing business US Sailing is currently critical to my being able to be in the business of teaching sailing and renting boats. Without US Sailing's Burgee Program I would have to pay astromical business insurance fees. And the US Sailing instructor certification is required to obtain and maintain the Burgee Program insurance package. So I need their training programs, too.

Will my Burgee Program insurance cover non-US Sailing regattas I may organize should a replacement multihull organization separate from US Sailing? Or will I have to buy even more insurance to cover those events? Will my business have to be a member of both US Sailing and a separate multihull organization? Dual memberships will certainly drive up business costs.

What if US Sailing cuts my business off by removing coverage in the insurance program for multihull businesses like mine and won't certify my instructors any more in retaliation against the splinter organization? And what if the splinter group can't provide me those things? Do I go out of business?

On an individual level, would our yacht and sailing clubs turn us out as members/ostracize us if we support a splinter organization? Would US Sailing MAKE them turn us out of their membership/ostracize us if we're not US Sailing members? We don't have any other physcal place to sail here if we lose our membership at the club.

So many questions! My head spins.

Nowadays if you want to put a mark in the water you need a permit. If you need a permit, you need insurance and a chase boat, and you need to be getting organized at least four months in advance.

Maybe a Yacht Club can get a single permit that covers all of their regattas. But a nomadic club has to get a permit for each event and deal with a different bureaucrat (often from a different agency with different requirements) each time. And to put all this effort in for a declining number of racers burns people out pretty quick. And with declining numbers it's hard to replace them.

Unless a miracle happens and people switch from jetskis to cats in droves, I think we're going to grow ever more dependent on Yacht Clubs. So we need to make common cause with them, not separate further from them.

Perhaps already covered in this very long thread... yes I to damn lazy to read it all, but what leverage does US Sailing have on sailing/yacht clubs and one design orgs. to force this issue?

If a group holds an event and specifically writes this requirement out of the rules and ignores it what will US Sailing do to them?

ps / edit ... how to provide a US Sailing "membership" number

I see the ONLY foot hold they have is on yacht clubs. Many of the one-design classes feel the same way we multi-hullers do about this issue. I now know that many dinghy class, as well as HCA, are leaning heavily to resounding opposition of this mandate.

In development of our "one-design" sailing center (Thistle, Scot, Laser, multi's) USSA was little or no help. And this help was requested by long time, and loyal members.

PHRF boats are the meat of USSA's "concern", let those guys pay a dollar amount per foot. It's like requiring the college buddies to pay $75 and join the USGA when they go for their annual round of golf. I don't think it will fly (pass)

Regarding permits. USSA has never assisted us in obtaining permits. In our experience, the more you expose yourself to the powers at be, the easier (and cheaper <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) the process becomes.

Regarding insurance, they'll take anyones money and they have different plans available, we purchase for our HCA division direct, it's very reasonable.

Mark, I feel your pain, and there are alternatives.

Hey, I'd pay an extra $25 to USSA when racing in an NAC, is anyone proposing compromises?

[/quote]

http://www.hcana.hobieclass.com/site/hobie/hcana/downloads/2008/HCAlettertoUSSA.pdf [/quote]

Bob, good letter, well put.
Caleb Tarleton

tell me what exactly does USSA do to "organise US championships".. Apart from rubber stamping?

Again in general I feel this is another "nancy pansy" reply to USSA initiatives and screwing cat sailors in general.

Please tell us why the dropping of the only cat class in the Olypmics was a shared Hobie and USSA goal? Wouldn't this alone have been enough to cause protest officially?

Just another missed opportunity by a leading cat class organisation.. When will the official "international classes" leadership get a backbone?

They assist in the financing of the event. e.g. Alter Cup.


Dropping the Tornado class from the Olympics is certainly not a goal of the Hobie Class Association of North America. (Speaking as a board member)


Hmmm. I see this as more like pragmatic, constructive engagement with U.S. Sailing - pointing out that the mandatory membership just doesn't make sense for the Hobie Class Association in North America - rather than trying to link the rejection of mandatory membership for skippers to the dropping of the Tornado class from the Olympics. Bob is the leader of the class in North America - not the leader of the IHCA.

Chris Green
Chair, Division 6

So how much financing does the "US national Hobie championships" obtain each year from USSA?

The "pragmatic, constructive engagement with U.S. Sailing" tack has been tried and it fails beautifully. Just ask John Williams.. Please try and recall an open letter to cat sailors from USSA, saying USSA would support a cat class at the Olympic level and TWICE voting against it when push came to shove.

Lets be clear..
Bob is the chair of a significant cat class inside USSA, which pushed and orchestrated for the succesful vote against Cats (the boat class competing was yet to be decided). So again what letter has the US National Hobie association done to place a line in the sand? So far its all "nancy pansy"...

Sounds to me like the Hobie class will not implement this new rule when they (NAHCA) are the organizing authority for the regatta. ... no matter what USSA decrees in then next few weeks. They gave two pretty good reasons... (deters new racers and enforcement will detract from the event)

What more do you want?


(It would be nice if the Performance classes, the NAF18, F16's and the other classes step up and made their position clear).

First of all, there are no US Hobie National Championships. We have a North American Championship, which by the way, has not been won by a US citizen in a while. Mexicans, Guatemalans and Puerto Ricans have been dominant.

Secondly, US Sailing does not support individual class championships. They conduct various "discipline-based" national championships - men's, women's and youth single-handed, double handed, triple handed, multihull, keelboat, match and team racing.

Thirdly, for many years, US Sailing has supported (with direct $) US citizen Hobie Sailors attending world championships.

I'm not happy with US Sailing, either. I'm just as involved with the organization as John Williams. Your approach does more harm than good.

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" - Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Hobie Sailors? Why are they in the business of promoting Hobie now? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> If so they are doing a very poor job of it. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

your approach only works IF both sides regards the issues as major and the relationship as major or high priority. Hence seeking a win/win solution is the best for both parties.. If one of the parties does not see the relationship as major then this approach is going to fail.. Its not it may but it will the only issue is when and how badly the positive side will loose by..

However USSA appears the regard the relationship with cats sailors as a low priority relationship but more of a money making inconvenience.. They do not want nor need a cat class relationship by their actions.. Ergo the letters and actions must vary.. (yes I can also quote Sun Tzu or a variety of conflict resolution books if you wish)

Fact is your approach is bound to fail and fail spectacularly unless USSA really wants the cats in the fold..

Hence you use the same predatory tactics they have employed.. Only be smarter...

I agree, I would love to see a real stand made by the performance and international classes.. But its probably not going to happen..

The A-Class NAC is in late September and the USSA mandatory membership will be an agenda item if it comes to pass. In fact, we (the class executive committee) will probably address it as it applies to the 2008 NAC. I've thought quite a bit about our position and I plan to recommend we follow a path similar to the Hobie Class in not enforcing that requirement at USACA sanctioned events.

Regarding the Olympic multihull issue, I still plan to not pay my 2008 USSA dues as my own form of personal protest against the policies and attitudes of US Sailing. I'll wait and see for 2009.

Way to go Bob.

Good stance on the non-enforcement at USACA events.

I'm boycotting any regatta that requires USSA membership, or collects an extra fee for not being a member.

Bill

I dropped my membership in USSA back in the 90s when they first started showing disinterest in the Multihull community. They originally only courted us until NAMSA disbanded and endorsed them to its members, then after they had our membership money, they once again reverted back to Mono-snobbery. They helped with the Alter Cup mostly as a token to keep us paying and make it look like they were interested. They aren't, and they won't be. I also wrote a letter as did Bob, and it also was fed to the shredder.

Back when the catamaran was in its most successful time, we didn't need an organizing authority, we had 50-100 boats at our events, we had mixed brands, one design classes, and it was easy and fun. Most of us volunteered for race committee on a rotational basis, and we didn't need anyone's stamp of approval to hold a regatta other than filing a regatta form with the Coast Guard and notifying the Marine Police. We also didn't have as many hungry lawyers and no one got injured seriously, at least due to fault of the RC or other sailors. I recall one electrocution due to somemone attempting to pull their boat across a road with the mast up and not checking for power lines.

If things were to get back to that, I would love to come back to cat sailing, but I don't see that happening. I just don't see the same level of one design simple fun there, except possibly with the Wave class.

For those who think membership in USSA is necessary to enjoy competitive sailing, stay with USSA, or better, NAMSA in the newer format. Most of us had more fun the old way. If you ever wonder where the thousands of racers went, I am one who left because of the idiocy of structured organization and politics that USSA finds so appealing. I find it discouraging that many in the catamaran community, some from the first, and now the second generation, that were so free spirit in the 70s and 80s has fallen into the institutional mindset. Heavily structured and regulated fun ceases to be fun.

"I'm boycotting any regatta that requires USSA membership, or collects an extra fee for not being a member."

Excellent, another shortsighted kneejerk reaction. Way to go, really "sticking it to the man..."

All you're actually doing is hurting your friends that are hosting regattas. If the regatta hosts are playing by the rules, we are all supposed to be charging a surchage in exchange for the fact that we have the benefit of a Golden Anchor program for all multihull classes.

Sorry Bill, you just really hit a nerve...

"We have a North American Championship, which by the way, has not been won by a US citizen in a while. Mexicans, Guatemalans and Puerto Ricans have been dominant."

I think Matt is being modest. He won the 17 NAs in 2006. The 16s have been dominated by non-US sailors for a number of years, but US sailors still do well in the 14, 17, 18, 20 and Tiger NAs. Not to mention kids and women. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mike

I know that I am getting older and my memory may be fading, but as I recall USYRU did not court the multihulls. Since they were the governing body for the sport of sailing in the US, a number of us led by Francie Jarvis, went to them in 1985. At first we were a committee and then became a council in 1986. USYRU did not have any involvement with the Alter Cup. It was the council's program to show that we were part of the organization. Almost all the programs Fast and Fun, sailing 101, Golden Anchor for multihulls were proposed by the council. As I see it for the last 20+ years is there has been to few of us we's involved against too many they's.

As far as going back to the good old days, maybe we should all buy Hobies and go back to sailing off the beach if we can find access.

Gordon

Well, actually no, since the Acat class isnt supporting USSA this year, I dont think I will be "hurting my friends" since the majority of the regatta's that I am going to attend this year are Aclass events.

Bill