OK, so the "cone of protection" is it real?

Only post if you know of a water-based strike first or second hand. We've all heard stories about so and so and so and so, but do you actually know of any incidents?

Don't report land-based strikes. We all know a boat on land is going to get the crap knocked out of it by lightning.

Second hand... the guy who owns a local sail shop stated that he knew a girl whos sunfish was struck while she was on it. She was not hurt but the lightning vaporized all the water in the hull and blew out 100's of pin holes.

Does receiving a shock from a nearby strike count (on the water)? Not enough to make me poop my pants but close.

Live in lightning capital of the world (or so I have been told).

Couple of stories in past few years:

J24 was struck. 2 holes blew out of the bottom of the hull either side of the keel. Keel was warped. Boat sunk and was quite funny to see the top 2 ft of the mast sticking out of the water.

Mates yacht gets struck each year. Last 2 strikes were to the water nearby and all the instruments were fried. B&G quite like him, insurance companies don't.

Central Florida lightning capitol of the USA (reference FAA) .. Rawanda is the official lightning capitol of the world.

I only know of one strike firsthand.

This was just a few weeks ago. We had finished a cabin boat regatta and pulled into dock. We were at awards when a good storm rolled in. We saw a 41 foot boat that was docked take a direct hit lighting up the top of the mast. This was the tallest mast in the harbor. Nobody was on board at the time. The hit blew out all the instruments and blew tiny pin holes through the fibreglass near the keel. When we went down to check it nothing was visibly wrong with the boat. The boat didn't take on any water from the fibreglass damage. I saw the strike and while it was loud it didn't seem like a very large bolt. The boats engine started right up and other than the instruments the boat seemed fine at first until they pulled the boat to look underneath.

I would still like to hear from someone that has first-hand knowledge of a boat being hit while sailing. Though I don't know why this boats incident would have been any different if it had been sailing. But perhaps there is something that disipates the charge when sailing.

I know you are interested in reality, but I just wanted to point out that the "cone of protection" doesn't match theory either.

To design a lightning protection system you imagine a ball with a radius of 150' and roll it across the surface of the earth and up over your structure. Anything it touches is a potential target. The negative area (space between the ball and structure as it rolls over the structure) sometimes approximates a cone, but not always.

I think there is a "fatal" flaw in the request for "first hand" lightening strike information.

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I agree

I was trying to decide if my info was second or third hand....

Shocking bit of insight

I've got a couple for you.

Dad's J80, struck by lightning. Blew pin holes in the bottom.

I've also had two other friends who have been struck, both while sailing. One was a ~35' Beneteau and the other was a 37 Hunter.

Anyone not here, please raise your hand. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In the long list of bad boat names this one should rank pretty high:

[quote]In the long list of bad boat names this one should rank pretty high:



THATS JUST ASKING TO BE KILLED!

so, is there any merit to dragging a heavy gauge cable straight down from the dolphin striker, so the bolt runs down the mast into the water without messing everything else up?

I know that stationary lightning rods and cables aren't supposed to have sharp bends in them to prevent the lightning from 'jumping' to something else more direct...

Skydivers without parachutes - first hand only...

Buehler?

I think the best bet is to sail near someone with a taller mast!!!

Most stories have to do with boats with keels or some intentional ground mechanism or boats sitting on land.

My curiosity lies in stories of beach cat sailors who have sailed through lightning storms and lived to tell about it either because they weren't hit or they were, but came out alive.

IMO If you were really worried a/b it besides the #1 safest practice (not going out), I'd say put a lightning dissipater on the top of your mast. They look like a little metal paint brush that's been "fluffed".

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/sto...mp;classNum=776

A class I took, Electro physics for Engineers dealt with this during a lecture. The professor brought in a Gauss generator and cranked it up. As it was (smooth round surface), it would discharge with a bolt/arc to a nearby grounded object because the smooth surface would allow a charge to build. He placed a paper "stake" (pointy thing you put papers on) on top of it and once the electricity had a sharp point to dissipate through it stopped arcing. The charge was being disipated through that point as a harmless invisible stream of electrons.

The lightning dissipaters do the same thing. Since lightning is a ground to cloud phenomenon by having this on top of a tall object it allows the charge to be put into the atmosphere and not accumulate and create the strong discharge, i.e. lightning.

My skipper (who doesn't have a computer) sailed a H20 in the Around the Island years ago and had "sailed the two worst storms of my life on the same day". He said that there was lighting striking everywhere and no one was hit that day. He also told me of a regatta where everyone was scrambling to get boats settled on the beach when a storm came up and lighting struck the beach. Anyone who was touching metal was shocked. He himself was one. He is convinced that sailing in lighting is fine. I don't think I really want to give it a try.

I took a hit through my trailer hitch latch to my right arm. It was at Sandy point in Annapolis right before a Down The Bay. Same storm's micro burst destroyed a few boats and knocked a few more out of the race.Lightning struck the parking lot where I was unhitching the trailer.So much for the rubber tire theory. My arm was numb for about 15 minutes. For the people that know me ,this might explain alot.

Back in my youth I was on a trailer sailer in a thunder storm. First strike of the storm hit either the mast or the water next to the boat. The chainplates and a stanchion on each side shared a common base plate. The boat had an earth wire.

I was leaning against the life lines when the strike hit and was thrown from one side of the boat to the other. No damage to the boat (it had no instruments). I don't sail in storms.

A quote from Dave Attell of "insomniac" that somehow seems fitting. Apparently he was struck outside a nightclub. He observes....

" Some people think that if you get struck by lightning you will get super powers, like the ability to shoot lightning out of your fingers or something...... I got the power to S**t my pants and shake on the ground, will I use it for good or evil....stay tuned.."

This article was provided in another lightning thread on this forum about two years ago.

http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/lightning2.html

the crew and I were sheltering inside a yacht as we motored home during a violent storm when the skipper started yelling for help moments before and just as a lightning strike hit the water close by.

We rushed on deck to see what all the noise was about and had to pry his fingers off the stainless wheel as his hands were paralysed.

He and we came good after a large rum.

Yes, if you want to attract lightening.

The one thing you can depend on when it comes to lightening is that you can't depend on anything.

I captained charter trips for 10 years and did yacht deliveries during that time and sailed through many, many lightning storms, never been hit. Had strikes nearby that would make things tingle a bit, but never been hit.
However, many cruising boats ground their boats to the water to dissipate any lightning strikes. Those were the only boats I knew of that ever got hit. Some had pretty bad damage -- they are sort of saying, "Come on! Give me your best shot!" And then trying to guide that strike to the water ground. That is when the lightning says, "OK, here is my best shot, and I am going to go anywhere I want once I hit."
As far as cat sailing goes, again no hits. Back in the 70s while sailing in Canada we were in a huge storm with strikes all around us. We had an aluminum tiller extension and could feel the shocks coming through it from strikes around us.
I got off the wire -- felt a bit concerned about a wire aiming right at my navel. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
So, never was good at physics and science in school, but after 43 years on the water, I can report I have never seen a moving sailboat get hit by lightning, unless grounded.
Rick

The problem with most of these stories, is they are about grounded masts. Except for some early boats, beach cats do not have grounded masts. Beach cats are less likely to be directly struck by lightning than grounded masts and will be more likely to shock you due to nearby strikes or static buildup.

I have only seen one beach cat struck by lightning. It was setting on the beach during a really bad storm. It looked like someone had set off a stick of dynamite under the mast. The lightning apparently hit the mast, burned through one or more shrouds and grounded itself by vaporizing part of one hull. So if you ever get really unlucky, the results could be really bad.

these an old aupercat 17 down at the beach right now that got hit by lighting.... the mast is alittle messed up but the lighting blem a hole the size of a baseball on the outer side of the starboard hull near the ground..... it was beached and tied down with line..... its been there for years and the guy still thinks he's gonna fix it someday.... hahaha... the hole gets softer and softer the longer it sits....

So, the consensus from what I'm reading here is:

If Lightning storms approach, go out and sail. If you're on the beach, your boat will be toast.

Oh, and wear hearing protection and rubber gloves to minimize shock (electric and sonic) from nearby strikes.

And disposable underwear!

Who wears underwear? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I see your point - why should you when your nutz are stored in the freezer next to the ice cream?

(man, you're just too easy).

That was cold!!

(ha ha, you're easier!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />)

I believe you made the point -- the boats on the beach that were struck by lightning were indeed grounded.
Boats on the beach were the only ones I have ever seen hit as well.
Again, never have seen an ungrounded sailing boat get hit by lightning.
Rick

With respect to the grounding thing, it had been said that you could survive a lightning strike in a pool by not touching the sides or bottom (and therefore grounding yourself).

While not having the "bravado" to test this theory (see aforementioned freezer comment <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ), I guess lessons from underwater welding could be loosely translated to this larger scale. The arc welders they use can do some damage if you're not careful.

So, by not being grounded in the first place (on the water), you stand a slightly better chance of not being a conduit for the lightning?

I'm still of the belief that when your number's up, there isn't much you can do about it...

check it....here's one reason why it's so random. The first part of the lightning strike is these charge fingers that are splintering while connecting the dots between dust and water particles in the air. The first one that finds a path to ground gets the charge....this is super high speed video of a tower strike.

That is awesome to watch

That is off the hook!

The 'fingers' show up really well on that video...

Thanks Jake, Both of my kids loved that video. Is there more of the same somewhere?

I found a couple that claim to be high speed but haven't found anything that approaches that video. That's got to be less than a tenth of a second spread out in that entire video.

Sea water (salt water) conducts electricity very well.
Fresh water does not. Hence, being on a cat in rain, not touching metal, you can stay not grounded to the sea.

However, if your trampoline is sprayed by sea water from wave wash, you are probably very unsafe.

A drysuit may help a lot.
The wet surface may act as a Faraday cage, maybe?

A friend of mine wearing a drysuit was struck by a lightning on the beach. He told me that he observed the flash travelling on the surface of the suit and felt the pressure, but was not injured. At least he claims he was not injured.

Would be nice if someone got the physicists who really know about lightning to come up with consensus recommendations for (dinghy) sailors.

Stein

The only beachcat I ever heard of being actually hit was Sue Walsh's at the Rudder Club in Jacksonville, FL, about 1970. Her Hobie 14 was hit on the river. She sailed in all shook up. Spectators went to look at the boat as the mast fell down- the bow bolt holding the split forestay had melted thru the fiberglass. No apparent damage to Sue.

See many scientific references at http://www.lightning.ece.ufl.edu/
The University of Florida Lightning Research Lab Prof. Martin Uman (also Dr. Ian McEwen now retired), have given lectures to sailors on this subject: Grounded sailboats get really badly damaged (pinholes and blowouts) unless there is a huge grounding plate attached thru the hull. PS: Do NOT run across Florida waters in a speeding powerboat with many lightning rods sticking up (otherwise called carbon-fiber fish poles). Many deaths result yearly from this.

PPS: Carbon masts explode- near the top? I saw a new Viper that contacted a powerline in the 2008 Mug Race at Palatka parking lot. Exploded a softball sized hole at point of contact.

I have had lightning strike the water next to me twice. Once on a prindle 19, that one shocked me as I had an aluminum tiller, since switched to fiberglass. The other was on the way to the bahamas, there were 4 of us keel boats traveling together. Lightning hit the water between us all, but not any of the boats. That was a real head scratcher. What made it even more troubling, was we were sailing Hobie 33's. Because our fuel tanks are so small we have about 6 cans of gasoline tied along the rail so we had enough gas to make the trip. We thought that would have made a nice picture. Later that week during the Abaco regatta a boat got hit sailing during a race. Also recently had our cat hit on the beach while is was on the beach wheels. Our conclusion was it would have had less damage had it been grounded better.
I think real answer is we have no clue. Best to avoid lightning storms if you can. So you still raise your hand to answer this question.

I don't think it is as much of an issue that "we don't have a clue" but rather that lightening is unpredictable. Different atmospheric conditions can see the lightening behave in very different ways.