Really its just a conspiracy to get rid of the heavy teams. [/quote]

I knew it!!!!

p.s. I'm lighter than I look ,Hot air don't weigh much. [/quote]

And those spindly tweezer legs offset some of the upper padding.

What is the "grand prize"?

I knew it!!!!

p.s. I'm lighter than I look ,Hot air don't weigh much. [/quote]

And those spindly tweezer legs offset some of the upper padding. [/quote]

Sounds like the Ooompah Looompah is jealous!

Pride in accomplishmnet
overcoming challenges
commraderie
friendship
bragging rights
etc

No doubt there is the adventure pool of sailors, but there is also the there to win pool.


Windyhill, you need to just show up on the line with the TheMightyHobie18, official or not. Hey, you'll even save the entry fee.

I can get most of those things going to the toilet!

(just kiddin)

Ok, my Tybee cred is very short, but:

1) If people are not coming to this race because they will not be first to the beach, then in my opinion they're talking smack and making excuses. These people should stick to OD regattas where no other classes are in sight to be happy, just to make sure no other boats are faster. In the first couple of attempts at this race most competitors list their goals as 1) Finishing and 2) not being last. Being first to the beach and winning is on everybody's mind, but if you stay home because you can't (especially if it is a boat class thing), then maybe you should stay home.

2) Sponsors for this race (as it exists now, anyway) in my experience are there for the ride, not the win. Given that almost all forms of racing has different classes, sponsors do understand first in class, and there are examples in racing to make a good argument. Further, for this race, media coverage in mainstream magazines and web coverage is where to make your case for sponsors - people watching from the beach won't matter. If your sponsors are in your home market, you need to make a case that the race being out of that market can still benefit them.

3) OoLaLa won on a chartered boat. People outside the US have raced the N20 in Tybee and Worrell. I suspect that if a team from abroad needed to find a boat for the race deals could be struck. Even if it was F-18, would the interest be such that people would ship their F-18s to the US for the race? If not, you're back to the charter boat scenario, and as noted there are far fewer F-18s here.

4) As pointed out, the F-18 scene on the East Coast is almost non-existent. Few people on the Chesapeake are even interested in them. The F-16 class seems to the be next high interest point, IMO.

commraderie?? What are you in the navy?

The reason Mike and I don't come is there has not been more than one other F18 sign up to do the race in the last to years. We don't want to spend all the money to do the race and only race against one other boat (no fun). Chuck has said he won't use portsmouth numbers like they do in the Great Texas.

As far as not stoping at check points uless you have a camera crew for each team it would not work. People are not going to sit 8 hours on the beach to watch some boat sail in and out. The first check point might be ok but the boats would get way too spread out at the end. At the finish line the RC and spectators could be there for 8 hours (good luck finding an RC).

Can't go to F18 in the near future.

You would have maybe 6 teams put an F18 on the line at most. The European's won't ship their boats because they would have to be without their F18 for a good part of the season. Probably get it back in Mid June sometime. I doubt they really want to do that. Also who would pay for the container. Last I checked it was 10K for a container back and forth.

Just not feasable for the F18 crowd.

They have a base of N20 sailors that are committed to the race. They get 10-12. That's a pretty good amount when you consider that's about the number they get at Nationals (15-18).

And yes the top F18 sailers don't want to be last to the beach and miss all the press.

And no the sailers don't want to go back and compete against M20's and Tornado's and Supercats.

The thing that keeps me from competing is the money.
Boat 20K
Race 5K

If I was sponsored for my expenses I'd do it in a second. But 5K is a lot of dough that can go toward a whole season of sailing.

I did it once. I did it for the competition, adventure, history.

I'd buck up the boat or the 5K but not both.

Mike Hill

The way I see it there are several issues and they need to be addressed systematically and objectively.

1. First is the issue that participation needs to be higher than it has been recently for the race to be viable. What are the numbers? 15 ~ 30?

2. Assuming this as a true statement, what existing boats and racers are candidates and how do you draw them out?

3. With only the I-20 platform and possibly the F-18 as eligible that limits it pretty much to owners of these boats.

4. Several F-18 proponents have indicated the F-18 cannot hope for line honors, so why try.

5. There are many other fast beach cats that might come out if allowed to.

6. I find it hard to believe that with these stated goals…

Quote:________________________________________
Pride in accomplishment
overcoming challenges
commraderie
friendship
bragging rights
etc

…that most teams are in it just for absolute line honors.

7. Obviously the I-20 needs to stay as the prime candidate for “top dog” since they have established a solid place in this event. It would make no sense to disallow the I-20 in hopes of drawing in a bigger fleet of F-18’s.

8. I would think that by using the I-20 rating as the standard (59.3 or whatever), that any boat rating higher should be considered. An arbitrary denial clause can be used in the case of any obvious attempt to bring in a “ringer”.

9. There could be two levels (20’ and 18’) using the I-20 and F-18 as the standards. Any cat rating above these numbers would race scratch in that class.

10. Limits on suitability would be applied to types of boats that, by design, would not be able to maintain a reasonable pace. Again, this would be totally arbitrary and based on common sense.

11. As an outsider I am reluctant to recommend changing anything other than fine tuning what already appears to be a very successful race. The 6 day format and general course appear to work well. Why change that? Changing the race itself won’t draw more boats. Making more types eligible just might.

"6. I find it hard to believe that with these stated goals…

Quote:________________________________________
Pride in accomplishment
overcoming challenges
commraderie
friendship
bragging rights
etc

…that most teams are in it just for absolute line honors."


These are MY goals. I think each team that shows up for the race has their own set of goals and winning is certainly a goal for many of the teams that show up.

Those were my goals the first time I did the Worrell 1000, but after several distance races and thousands of dollars I would like to be able to win. The Great Texas uses the portsmouth rating and it seems to work for them. The first year of the GT there were a lot of I20's and now it is mostly F18 . If the Tybee 500 would use the portsmouth rating I think it would get more F18's and maybe more boats from overseas.

I talked with Chuck briefly last night (I had to cut it short) but Chuck says that if you guys want to man up and sail a boat that's ready available, sailed often, and has plenty of spares available, show up with Hobie 16s and hush!

(PS...that was ~mostly~ in jest).

He does think this is a good conversation.

OK...now I guess we need to start training...........!

Looks like the Great Texas has moved away from portsmouth (good idea IMO). Using a handicap system for a distance race at this level especially DPN would be a big step backwards.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/showthre...true#Post154006

I can just see the Sean and the whole beach crew groaning. :P

Thats basically the stance Chuck took with me early on in '07. As the race got closer he changed his opinion. I completely understood then and now.
Brian, we could have entered but would have received no support from the organizing group and in the event of an emergency would have been on our own. Didn't seem like a good idea to us.
Tad, spare parts for the TheMightyHobie18 are available everywhere. I have 3 complete carcasses now. 2 spins and poles, 8 daggers, 4 pairs of rudders and 3 masts. What more could I need to enter safely?
I do like how this discussion is going. Any boat of comparable speed could be entered. Could run a shorter course for slower classes to finish at the 4th checkpoint for example. Many options to consider. It is an expensive event to enter but we found sponsers that liked our nostalgia approach. They were excited about two guys over 40 racing a boat that was 25 years old. Good advertising opportunity for the right companies on the east coast.

Iron men and plastic boats . . .

If you can bring all those parts, great.

However, thats not what the F18 team had. Had there been more of an F18 fleet presence, then the pool of spares grows geometrically. Its common sense.