Remember the most important feature in boat for the IOC is for the the builder or builders to supply X identical charter boats, preferably free and then way down the list the boat should float and move under wind power.

The only thing that fits is the Tiger.

How do you know that Carl?
Everybody but the Laser sailors brings their own boats as far as I know, even the winsurfers, and I dont know how the Lasers are financed.

I see the advantage for the IOC and the arranging country, but I would like to know more.

And if Hobie brings out another F18, they don't have the need to update the Tiger to new F18 rules, they'll probably freeze its class rules as is. If you want the newest hype in F18, go and buy the new "Leopard", if you want OD Hobie racing and still a valid boat for F18, stay with the Tiger. Thus it probably would not affect too much the F18 class, nor other F18 manufacturers.

I would expect them to pick the new Hobie F18 "Leopard". That is my prediction.

Mike Hill

Someone will lobby them for a 20 footer with foils, and start an ISAF OD 20 class with a pimped out hull design and sailplan.

Hobie cat are not targeting professional sailors with their design and build quality, they aim for the recreational sailor. Make a dedicated multihull for the olympics that is durable and has top quality. A multihull is more complex to build than a monohull and has high loads that must be handled with correct design, material and build quality. That's why it is such a bad idea to take a cheap multihull boat and hope that it will work the same way as with the Laser.

/hakan

Except for the Tornado, dont you see any other alternatives in the current beachcat world?

I dont think build quality and lifetime of the boats will matter much for those making the decisions. The Laser dont have a very long competitive either.

Does the naming convention mean Apple is buying Hobie?

F18's cost ~$20K US.... I know the dollar is down against the Euro, hardly a cheap recreational boat! That said, an average sailor that spends ~$40K on a new Marstrom might want to have his head examined. This price is another blow to the T-class, great boat, too many practical liabilities to remain viable, and price is one of them.

The whole concept of the F18 was to build fast boats at reasonable costs and grow the class-a good idea. (That's why there is a 'no carbon' provision in the box rule. Seems to be working. Now, even the T sailors compete on F18's as part of their training, and the boat remains within accessible price range for pros, serious amateurs and also novice sailors.)

Therefore I wouldn't say 'cheap', I'd say 'accessible'.

A new Olympic ready Tornado, fully loaded for racing, is just too expensive for the number of sailors that want to sail them.

If an accesible cat, that really is sailed by more than a few pros, gets the olympic status, it would be very positive for the multihull community. Younger people would get on the boat, the local and national federations would support the class etc. This was not happening with the Tornado, at least in Spain, and this is mostly due to the elevated cost.

But boat costs are almost irrelevant wehn costing a campaign. When I was doing it, it was about 10% costing for boats and the rest logistics. If it's cost based the Star needs binning.

Certainly the cost of the boat was used against the Tornado in Estoril when ISAF Council kicked multihulls out of the games. Most teams have two or three boats which they ship around or leave in place for the big events, so it is not the boats or even the sails that make this expensive. If boat costs was analyzed, or campaign budgets, I would like to see some of the Star and Yngling account books. It is as Simon says, logistics, hotels and fees. Not having a regular income is the other big part of it.

We dont have to take this thread down that route again, we have done so before. Far more interesting to hear what people THINK Council might prefer, and why.

I wonder if HCE is even going to ship them to the United States. We get two of their models, Tiger and FXone.

If there is money in it, why not?

First, I don't disagree with anything you say. That said, the advent of the de facto SMOD Olympic Tornado ultimately drove the price out of sight, and has contributed to the problems of the T, (despite the fact that the T is a fantastic boat). Keeping the price of the boat down is important to the class, but not an Olympic campaign. However, both price and competitive considerations are ultimately important to the sustainability of the MH class in the Olympics, albeit for very different (yet complimentary and synergistic) reasons. Cheaper boats is supposed to = more MH sailors. More MH sailors means better competitions, better competition means better Olympic spectacle. An accessibly priced, competitive boat is a means to this end.

Lillia or Mader star $48,000-$60,000 depending upon all of the other factors, mast, sails, rigging, ect...
Marstom Tornado $42,000 including VAT.
Yngling $48,000-$52,000

As windswept shows above, the facts are that the T is not the most expensive boat.

The T is also the most long lasting.

We did some numbers a while back and the T is one of the cheaper boats to sail at the ollies in terms of boat costs as they last so long.

Yes there is high initial cost to set it up; but once set up things settle down to running expenses that will be similar to most of the other boats - I hear horror stories of laser sailors going thru 30 masts before choosing a couple they like and similar for hulls. I've also been told that a laser hull lasts 3-4 months before they get another one.

yes, Laser hulls are allocated at the games and so they don't pay for the last boat, but I assume they pay for all the boats they use up to the games.

You really need to dig into the detail to get to the true campaign costs.

It is all part of a power struggle between the Dutch national organisation for cat sailors and the official Dutch Sailing Federation. The cat sailors are by vast majority not a member of the official national sailing association KNWV (like US sailing) and have formed a long time ago their own organisation (over 30 years ago) together with two other unrepresented groups; NFB. Basically, the KNWV didn't want to have us back then and so we went our own way. Now the KNWV is trying to bring back these renegates into the fold. So they struck a deal with the Texel organisation and other officially recognized classes (like F18) that each racers needs to present an officially sanctioned KNWV racing-license when entering. Basically it is a trick to have cat sailing pay dues to the KNWV. But of course when push comes to shoove the representative at Estoril voted against the Tornado class. We are good for the money but nothing else.

The coastal clubs (85% of all cat sailing in NL) luckily are keeping the KNWV out of there events and clubs so for those you don't need any "racing-license".

About this Texel silver fleet; well there is a sizeable group of sailor that couldn't care less about any "racing-license" and certainly not for a single event per year. In order to NOT kill off Round Texel economically they made a loophole and that is the silver fleet, you don't need a KNWV racing license to participate in that fleet.

Personally, I'm all for an alternative Round Texel event, back to the roots, where the normal sailor is again the focus of the event and you don't have to put pay (combined) hunderds of Euro's for a starting permit, racing license, glass of beer etc and still have to stick scored of sponsor stickers to your hulls and sails.

Next weekend one of those old NFB sanctioned events is coming up again. The NAM-REM race, almost as long as the Round Texel, entry fee 50 bucks, food incl. for another 10 bucks, beer 1.25 a glass. Have a good time for under 100 Euro's and get to do the bouyracing on sunday as well. About 100 boats participating.

Wouter

Would you come if I arranged "Rounde Gossa" and two days of buyo racing in midsummer? All for the sailors and their experience. Midnight sun (almost), great scenery and fairly predictable conditions..
I would not think so, except once for the experience and the trip. I think people go to the big events becouse they are well known and gives the weekend warriors a chance to fulfull their dreams. I agree that smaller events usually are much better and more fun, but I still want to go to Texel some time.

Oh, and by the way here is the map reference to "Gossa" (I live just to the east of the island):
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=aukra&sll=62.760065,7.000527&sspn=0.008682,0.034504&ie=UTF8&ll=62.831327,6.915894&spn=0.277162,1.104126&t=h&z=10

Rolf,
Are you talking this year or next year?

Bill