| |  Re: Interesting Info to Share
[Re: Wouter]
#152660
08/27/08 04:01 PM 08/27/08 04:01 PM |
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon 
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi... |
.... thus you need to (maybe) sheet IN or BARE-OFF (but only if the hull is in the air, or you cannot sheet in any more).
Wouter, your sentence is incomplete <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Interesting Info to Share
[Re: Matt M]
#152661
08/28/08 05:53 AM 08/28/08 05:53 AM |
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia Marcus F16
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia |
Also be very aware that buy easing the sheet or traveler in conjunction with bearing off in a gust, you open up the sail and present a big flat area of sail dirrectly in front of the wind 8.5 meters up in the air. This is the perfect recipe for stuffing the bows in every big gust.
Matt, There are many theories & none of them necessarily right or wrong & each sailor does need to explore their limits. Maybe experiences are best shared..... Why dont you share what occurance caused your big nosedives in the first two windy races at the Zandvoort GC races where your transoms were pointing at the sky.? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Marcus Towell
Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
| | | Re: Interesting Info to Share
[Re: Marcus F16]
#152662
08/28/08 06:27 AM 08/28/08 06:27 AM |
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K Mark P
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K | I'll never forget one of John Pierce's quotes;
'The mainsail doesn't know that you're going downwind'
Think about it.......it makes a lot of sense considering the amount of apparent wind which can be generated when sailing a F16 sensibly.
MP*MULTIHULLS
| | | Re: Interesting Info to Share
[Re: Marcus F16]
#152663
08/28/08 07:29 AM 08/28/08 07:29 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL Matt M
addict
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addict
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL |
Also be very aware that buy easing the sheet or traveler in conjunction with bearing off in a gust, you open up the sail and present a big flat area of sail dirrectly in front of the wind 8.5 meters up in the air. This is the perfect recipe for stuffing the bows in every big gust.
Matt, There are many theories & none of them necessarily right or wrong & each sailor does need to explore their limits. Maybe experiences are best shared..... Why dont you share what occurance caused your big nosedives in the first two windy races at the Zandvoort GC races where your transoms were pointing at the sky.? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Thanks Marcus. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> My multiple swimming experieces at Zandvoort were exactly why I was posting to this thread. I'm light and if I twist off the main in a gust where the apparent wind goes aft, it is not possible for me to save it, generaly making my crew very unhappy. I know there are a lot of techniques for each person and boat set up that will all work, and I did not mean to make it sound different. Just adding my caution from some big wind bad expereinces. M | | | Re: Interesting Info to Share
[Re: Matt M]
#152664
08/28/08 09:20 AM 08/28/08 09:20 AM |
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 81
singapore ckuang OP
journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 81
singapore | Hey Matt, what was the windspeed at Zandvoort? The reason I'm asking is that i just also wanted to put in a disclaimer about my experiments with the main and kite. We found on the Viper that the "get the apparent wind going, bear off, ease kite and mainsail and drive lower but keep hull flying technique" good up till about 13-14knots of wind speed. Once the wind speed hits about 15 knots, the viper becomes a whole different animal altogether. Our experience with the viper in about 15 knts with the kite up is that the boat starts to plane just like one of those high performance dinghy and we don't really sail it like a conventional cat anymore. Every time a gust hits, the boat just keeps accelerating like on a skiff and the nose has no inclination at all to dive, as such we just focused more on keeping the boat flat and on a plane rather than going for depth and flying the hull as the loss of speed and distance of the boat coming off a plane and getting it back on was just too great. To achieve this we focused more on playing the sheets of both the main and spin than trying to steer the boat down for distance. I'm not sure if this is the same for a blade hull as we seem to have more flat section than the blade hull but certainly different wind speeds also seem to require different technique. Perhaps other Viper sailors or perhaps a F18 capricorn sailor might be able to chime in and explain what I'm talking about because i know the concept of a planing cat is still a little odd in some ways. Or maybe i'm just imagining things <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> | | | Re: Interesting Info to Share
[Re: Gilo]
#152667
08/28/08 04:55 PM 08/28/08 04:55 PM |
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 183 john p
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 183
| In my experience the technique for sailing with the spinaker is different for singlehanded and 2 up.
One thing that remains the same though is that you steer the boat for max VMG then trim the sails accordingly.
In non hull flying conditions this is about 'feel' and the only way to get this is with experience
For hull flying conditions it is a bit easier,
For single handed, sit on the windard hull set the traveller in the middle, then set the main so that the top leeward tell tail is flying most of the time (80% will do)then cleat it and forget it it, a bit of experience will tell you where to put it, but don't fiddle with it just sail the boat with the rudder and spinaker.
Then steer and play the kite to keep the hull up. Keep the steering small as the rudders act like brakes, let the hull fly up and down quite a lot so that you can avoid big rudder movement.
Since the steering is the most important (you cannot loose the tiller) and you must hold the spinaker sheet in your other hand you can do no more.
For double handing it's much easier, position the crew between the lower hull and trapezing, moving them up as the wind increses, 2 extra hands means the helm can play the main as well as steer, just use one armfull of sheet to smooth out the steering, (steering is slow so try to do the minimum) the crew can also smooth out the gusts by moving a small amount in response to gusts and lulls, every so often look up and check that the leeward top tell tails are still streaming, it's better to be under sheeted than over sheeted.
Remember though the speed comes from the steering in all conditions KEEP THE RUDDERS AS STILL AS YOU CAN!!
John Pierce
[email]stealthmarine@btinternet.com
/email]
| | | Re: Interesting Info to Share
[Re: john p]
#152668
08/29/08 04:18 AM 08/29/08 04:18 AM |
Anonymous
Unregistered
| Anonymous
Unregistered
| In my experience the technique for sailing with the spinaker is different for singlehanded and 2 up.
One thing that remains the same though is that you steer the boat for max VMG then trim the sails accordingly.
In non hull flying conditions this is about 'feel' and the only way to get this is with experience
For hull flying conditions it is a bit easier,
For single handed, sit on the windard hull set the traveller in the middle, then set the main so that the top leeward tell tail is flying most of the time (80% will do)then cleat it and forget it it, a bit of experience will tell you where to put it, but don't fiddle with it just sail the boat with the rudder and spinaker.
Then steer and play the kite to keep the hull up. Keep the steering small as the rudders act like brakes, let the hull fly up and down quite a lot so that you can avoid big rudder movement.
Since the steering is the most important (you cannot loose the tiller) and you must hold the spinaker sheet in your other hand you can do no more.
For double handing it's much easier, position the crew between the lower hull and trapezing, moving them up as the wind increses, 2 extra hands means the helm can play the main as well as steer, just use one armfull of sheet to smooth out the steering, (steering is slow so try to do the minimum) the crew can also smooth out the gusts by moving a small amount in response to gusts and lulls, every so often look up and check that the leeward top tell tails are still streaming, it's better to be under sheeted than over sheeted.
Remember though the speed comes from the steering in all conditions KEEP THE RUDDERS AS STILL AS YOU CAN!! Sounds like my experiences John. I would just add, that the last thing you want to be doing is playing the main sheet when you are on the edge <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. If you ease too much main the flow in the head will stay or become attached as you bare away causing the bows to drive down. When you are on the edge you want the head of the main to stall as you bare away so it depowers. This is why cleating the main works. Playing main is only for when you are looking for power. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> | | | Re: Interesting Info to Share
[Re: ]
#152669
09/04/08 07:59 AM 09/04/08 07:59 AM |
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 81
singapore ckuang OP
journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 81
singapore | hey guys, much more experimenting over the weekend with sailing the viper downwind with the kite up in a local regatta with about 10 cats on the water, 8 of which were in the F16 configuration. 1 other taipan4.9 and one nacra inter 17 Scott McCook our local cat guru has added a whole lot of updates on downwind sailing and mast rotation for anyone who's interested. The blog can be found here http://boatsbikesboards.wordpress.com | | |
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