Ahoy all, I finally jumped the fence and bought a F16. Well, not quite, it's actually a Stealth which predates the F16 box rule, so it's not an 'optimized' boat: the spi pole is shorter than allowed, the boat is narrower, the main is small with a rounded leech (no square head), I don't even have the magic winglets on the rudders... But hey, it floats, it's half the weight of my Nacra 5.2, I can recover from a capsize by myself and it fits the box rules.

Anyway, I need a main. I'm not in a hurry so I can afford to wait and choose. I've looked around to see who is making F16 main sails and tried to find price information for them, see the list below. I would probably be a good idea to keep this list on the F16 website somewhere next to the lit of boat builders. Is there anybody else I missed? Of course price is only part of the equation, can you share information about those sails if you have one: quality, performance, size? Anybody ever compared sails at Mumbles between beers? Measured foot, leech, head? And if each of those sailmaker is sending me a sail to test I promise to make a big article about it <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It's always nice to use someplace relatively local in case something goes wrong, as such the GP sail is most tempting for me, but something must be said about the low price of the $ making the Glaser attractive, especially if I could find someone to fly back with it instead of shipping across via fedex!

Sailmaker making F16 sails for sure:
Glaser: http://www.glasersails.com (US)
Goodall: http://www.ahpc.com.au/p_goodallsails.htm (AU)
Grant Piggott: http://www.gpsails.com/ (UK)
Landenberger: http://www.landenberger-sailing.com/spip.php?article149 (GER)
Ullman http://uk-ullman-sails.com/ (US?)

Prices are around £1200 for the GP, the landy or the Goodall with battens and VAT included.

The Landenberger is available from multiple sources in the UK (example: http://www.bitz-brands.co.uk, and I think Mark P. is also reselling those). Also it is worth nothing that Landenberger is making 3 different sails for the F16, with different cuts and materials: the one I priced is the cheapest Pentex one.

The Goodall Viper sail is available in Europe via sailfast.fr. Is the sail for the AHPC Blade different from the Viper one? Anybody knows? Anybody seen that sail?

The Glaser is $1540 with battens, around £850 at today's exchange rate, which is far far cheaper. But once you add the 17.5% customs, plus shipping from the US (Battens are expensive to ship!) the price get close to the same thing really. *unless* you know someone who can collect it in the US and travel with it... I don't know of any importer for this sail.

I have no info whatsoever about Ullman sails. Price? Availability? There is nothing on-line I can find about those sails so any information would be welcome. I know Ullman was the sail shipped with some Vectorworks Blade in the US, but that's it.



Sailmaker who never build a F16 sail but could:
Whirlwind: http://www.whirlwindsails.com
Chip has not done a F16 sail before but as I was in contact with him for a main on my 5.2 I asked him. He quoted me an interesting price, overall a little bit cheaper than the Glaser. It's a risk as it would be a first sail for this boat from him, but he's experienced, and it would be nice to add another sailmaker to the list...


Unclear if they are making one:
Ashby: http://www.ashbysails.com
He is making sails for Taipan, Tornados, F18 and A class, anybody knows if he developed one specific for the F16? Maybe now that the Olympics are finished he will have time to make a real web site with some product information.


I don't think there is really a market for used Main F16 sails. It seems people keep their sails for training purpose when they upgrade, but just in case, if you have a used F16 main for sale, talk to me...

When I spoke to Greg he recommended the new big head Taipan mainsail as suitable for the Blade.

There is no information whatsoever on G. Goodall sails available anywhere I can find. Are the sails for the AHPC Blades, Vipers and Taipans all the same? Is there different models?

There has to be different models as the masts are different. If somebody tried to sell me a mainsail cut for a mast they dont know all details about, I would walk away.

These days with computer models and CNC cutters, you should be able to talk with any of the sailmakers about your weight, skill level, expected sailing conditions and get a sail tailored for you.

Pictures glaned here and there...

Glaser:


Grant Piggott:


Ullman:


Goodall Viper:

.

Pepin,

The GP Sails mainsail has been developed by Grant and I espically for the Stealth tapered mast. Grant is UK based, a Cat sailor and a top bloke. I's suggest spending the money and going with a GP sail.

Are you planning to come to the Grafham Cat open on the 18th and 19th Oct. I'll be there as will others with GP mainsails if you want to have a proper look.

Cheers

Simon.

Maybe, is there a NOR available? Can't find it on the Graftam web site...

It sould be up soon!

So which boat did you buy, Pauls old boat that was at Datchet or another.

I think both Nick Moore and I are planing to travel up to Grafham, perhaps we could encourage a few others as its not far up the road from Datchet.

Talking to a few other members at Datchet, there seems to be a bit of a groundswell of prospective f16 buyers with a number already with boats advertised. Should be interesting over the Winter and in particular next summer as we are regularly getting 4 - 6 boats on a Wednesday night and similar Sundays. Its a pity we couldn't get all the F16's in the boat park to all race at the same time <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Why do the GP mainsails have the downhaul eye 6 nches from the foot?

It allows more freedom for downhaul setup - I have set it up so I can tune it from the wire with one hand easily, and also keeps the blocks away from the the gooseneck.



The bottom has a plastic slider that just sits in the mast track.

So what's the point of the sail below the downhaul? wgy not use that sail area somewhere useful?

I find this an interesting point but I do not think most sailmakers will make a sail specifically for you. They hvae a template (or whatever) and they use it. I have talked to some about even making a more UNI shaped sail for the blade and they did not seem the least bit interested. That being said, not sure I could make much of any benefit it may or may not have. If some sailmakers aren't interested in the difference between a uni sail and a 2-up sail then not sure they give a crap about whether you weigh 200 or 160. You think they would care about whether you predominantly sail in 5kn vs 20kn of wind... but not sure they care about that either. Whether one could make use of the difference is another discussion.
Anyway, my thoughts on the matter and it could just be me and my limited experience with sailmakers. I have gotten 2 new mains for cats in the last 3 or so years and the first builder (very well known) didn't ask me a single thing about how much I weigh and how much wind, etc. Of course I knew nothing then though.
If you truly want one designed for you then you do need to go to your local shop or somehow convince the big guys to give a crap about a possibly one-off sail.

The blades are actually built by Vectorworks and Formula Catamarans Australia, not AHPC.

Greg said the Blade and Viper sails he was building were different. The Blade sail was the same as the Taipan sail. As far as I know the Blade and Taipan masts are the same. Not sure what is on the Viper though.

The Viper, Taipan and Blade all use the same mast section here in Australia.

And I thought the downhaul eye was 6 inches from the sail foot so when the sail doesn't measure because it's too big you can easily get rid of a bit of sailcloth without damaging the integrity of the design.....any ideas Matt, Geert <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Isn't the proper reason that pulling the downhaul on hard you can actually stretch the luff longer than the rules allow, but having the downhaul clew 6 inches above the foot you can pull on hard but the foot doesn't necessarily lower and therefore the sail remains within class rules.

Partly.

There is a black band rule. Essentially it's a function of measured luff length, sail area and foot length which will ensure you are not ALLOWED to pull more downhaul on than would streach the mainsail bigger and 15sqm (including the mast). Masts will be marked with a black band which will show the max DH that can be applied. This is the same as the A Class.

Please go to the F16 website and download the measurement spreadsheet: http://www.formula16.org/images/stories/measurement/f16measurementform.xls

The exact formula is defined there.

I don't have a black band on my mast. Does anyone? Or am I missing it because the mast is black?

Do you have a black band on your mast Simon?

When I laid my Landy sail on top of Wayne's GP sail the luff lengths were visibly the same. Which brings me back to my first question about the downhaul position.

Am I smelling something fishy here?