regarding the Granger (ex-Smyth) HT:

Tommy, ever the modification genius, has spent these last few years doing some kewl stuff to his HT. He's redone the beams and canted the hulls, and prolly done lots of other stuff that I can't remember offhand. He's also painted it a very kewl lime green.

You will likely be seeing it racing before too long - he and the Master FiberGenius Dub (Tommy's dad) have been creating an absolutely wild modified Stiletto which has distracted from the HT project.

If my boat is any indication, these two boats should just be the absolute [censored]!

The other three HT: Mark Ederer has one and races it rather occasionally, and there are two in a secret place in a secret state - if I told y'all where they were I'd have to kill all of y'all.

Wouter has him tied up in his basement.

I doubt the dutch have a lot of basements... being below sea level and all!

The elephant in the room is your total avoidance of the central issue... eg.. the total and rapid collapse of the class (people) ... Not the where is waldo game of who has an HT hidden in a garage.

How did the group of sailors who liked that boat disolve?

What happened?

Why?

Most of those guys are still racing cats in other classes!

Was the Mike Worrell Bimare decision to use the 18HT, a boat optimized for buoy racing, in a 1000 mile ocean race the major reason?

Why would that be... The boat is round the can racer. Why did the racing class disolve?

Bill,



Something wrong with your eyes. I wrote up "legal papers" as well and also builder comments (three guesses which builder that might be)

Wouter

That was a lame attempt at humor. I havent talked to WF, he stopped communicating with me and others after the Worrell fiasco. I've since heard he had health problems and financial problems, but thats second hand.



The title of the thread was "What happened to all the HTs?" and thats the question I thought we were discussing. I'm pretty direct and wasnt trying to avoid anything, so if you want my opinion, I can offer it.



I assume you mean "What happened to the class." It stopped operating because the people behind it made a decision to stop organizing it. WF was the original driving force behind the class, he was the importer, owned the website, owned the class trailer and the main promoter of the class. WF was the one who worked with Mike Worrell to get the HT selected for the Worrell 1000. WF convinced Bimare into sending 12 boats for the Alter Cup that were supposed to be later used for the Worrell.

There was a small group of HT owners that started stepping in to take on and take some of the responsibilites from WF about the time the Worrell was supposed to happen. We had regular meetings and started to organize the class, the rules and the racing schedule.

Once it became obvious to us that WF's dealings with Mike Worrell and Bimare had soured, and would cause too much of a distraction, we decided to stop our efforts to move the class forward. WF stopped communicating with us, he let the website lapse and that was the end of it.

Personally I do believe the HT is a great round the cans racer and was(is) a horrible choice for a distance race like the Worrell.

If the class had not gotten involved in the Worrell, it would have grown organically and probably been intact today. Most of the guys that bought the boat to train for the Worrell sold them shortly after it became obvious that the race wasnt going to happen.

Everyone keeps ending up on Hobie 16's again.

What was old is new again.

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
http://hobiedivision2.com/Results/40results.pdf

Hey Wouter,

Good news, I've been getting emails all morning from HT owners that want to get together and race.

How many have you had Bill?

I always thought the 18HT was a cool boat. John_P built a Stealth 18HT that looked and sailed superb and I think he's still got the moulds. Do you think the 18HT Class could be revived? (As in class association, racing circuit, nationals, new boat sales etc.)

Surely there must be a market for a lightweight, medium-tech 18 footer?

Emails?

4 this morning.

The HT class could be easily restarted in the US. Its alive and well in Switerland.

If someone wants to organize a race or a series of races, I will help in getting it organized.

As far as getting new boats, you could call Bimare, they would probably make you one. The issue is that they are now going to be expensive as compared to a F18 because of the change in value of the dollar vs the euro and the cost increases in Carbon masts. I doubt anyone is going to sign up for a new HT given that most of the racing seems to be going to the F18 even if the cost isnt the issue.

"Do I think the class could be revived?" Yes, but I dont think it would be a good idea. HT's are going to be expensive as compared to F18's and F16's, so attracting new owners is going to be tough. Plus the racing crowd has all moved on, so getting racing mass back into the boat would be tough.

Do I think it would be fun to have reunion regatta for all the new owners? Yes, and I would help getting this organized.

Do I think the class should be re-started - no.

Bill

Ey Bill, you are doing anti-promotion. The 18HT is a cool concept. So what if the F18 is the class where the racing is today. That dont mean there will not be enough interest in the 18HT to keep a class going.

If the exchange rate is really bad, boats can be built in the US, even homebuilding is possible.

Would not cost much time and money to set up a website and e-mail group for those interested.

The problem is not the number of boats or other classes, it is getting the right persons to get things going and keep them going.

I always thought the 18HT would be an ideal single hander if it was widened to 10 or 12 feet; Kinda more modern 18Sq; add T foils as well and it would be a scream, up to a point and then it would get very scary in the big stuff!

I widened mine and single hand it all the time.

Its a blast.

The class is dead in the US as far as I'm concerned, so I wasnt trying to be pro or con, I was just giving my opinion.

One of the reasons I wouldnt want to revive the HT class is the rule set is too structured. The class needs to be way more open, more of a development class. When the HT rule set was being debated with the Europeans, I felt that we ended up with too many rules and got away from what I felt was a more open rule set mentality. We talked about being a open/development class, but ended up with too many rules. Wouter actually used that arguement against us a number of times. He had a point.

If the HT class were to be restarted in the US, the first change that I would advocate would be to skinny the rule set down and allow for at least an 8'6" width. Limiting the width based on the European road width limit never appealed to me. I widened my HT to 8'6" and its a better boat.

So, no I'm not trying to promote the HT class.

Okay, I started this thread, so let me be clear:

I was asking where the 18HT boats are now. (I have no questions or interest about the class collapse, Worrell, former boat owners, broken contracts, etc.) No red-blooded cat sailor can deny that these are intriguing boats.

It must be a rocket, wide and single handed!

I thought Wouter had his finger plugging up a dike somewhere........

I'd love to see a worldwide 18HT class. I accept it'll probably never happen. but it would be cool to at least have 'pockets' of 18HTs around the world. I'd imagine that if the same level of development went into them as goes into the current F18s we'd be seeing them up there boat-for-boat with the I20s etc.

Bill, if you're getting a genuine resurgence in interest in the class in the US and you all agree that the rules should be tweaked, why don't you do it? You could be on to the beginning of something great......

I think we've talked about this before; got any pictures?

Yes, we did.

Here.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...;amp;page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

I need to go collect her from the beach, I will take more pictures before I dismantle her for the season.

Just trying to rattle your cage Bill, hoping something good for the 18HT comes out of it. I agree with Jalani, thats why, but I should not try to push it. Sorry.