Ugh.. unreasonable... NO !

My local Hobie dealer has been stuck with a 16 with chute used two years ago at the ISAF youth games for a week in Cork. It's at the Annapolis boat show every year... nobody wants it.

He won't sell it without the spin... no class member want's to buy it with the spin....

The premium to put the gear on and off and on again has to be paid for. Don't mix up the CLASS buisness... with the company's buisness.

In the end... the big picture is really:

Does the US racing community want the Alter qualifier and championship.

With max attendance at 15 boats... and many areas with no participation or minimal participation.. WHY SHOULD WE KEEP DOING THIS?

Please don't mix issues.

The boats in question were going to be shipped to Europe after the Alter Cup. So, selling them on the US market would not have been an issue. Just class business.

And Area L had 17 boats for this years Qualifier. A 3-fold increase over last year.

To clarify...

A) There was no "UP" charge by Hobie for taking the H16 without spin gear. The charter fee quoted by us was the same either way. BTW, These fees do not cover the cost for providing boats. This is equipment, transportation, labor, maintenence during the event etc.

B) I think it makes all the sense in the World that the Class decided to reject the use of the spinnaker as "not a class legal" boat.

C) US Sailing could have accepted the 16 as it is sailed in the USA... no spinnaker.

I'm not the most diplomatic person in the world and my comments in these kinds of threads tend to lead to Michael Bay (Bad Boys 2) alike spectacular explosions.

So get out the popcorn, put on your sunglasses (Bright light warning) and get into your comfy chair.

Are you all ready ?

Here it comes, enjoy !


Matt Miller wrote :




Anybody please entlighten me; Is or is not the Alter Cup final an official Hobie class event ?

If not, then what the %@!&*#@* has the NA-HCA organisation to do with how the used boat is equipped ?

And again, why can the exact same boats be used in no less then TWO major and official HOBIE CLASS events on the same continent but NOT in the (unassociated) Alter Cup ?

Note here that the spi equipment would have to be FITTED then REMOVED and then REFITTED again in order to use these boats WITH A SPI in the two named hobie class events that straddle the Alter Cup event.

Really, who is thinking this **** up ?






They could also have accepted to use a design by a different boat maker, one that comes without "interesting" bureaucratic thorns, hooks and conditions or indeed holes and protrusions from removed equipment.

Ohh wait, THEY DID !


I'll wait to see what more comes out of it, but it really does appears as if internal disagreements on the Hobie side of things derailed the Hobie 16 + spi usage as the Alter Cup boat. Especially since an alternative bid (Viper F16) was also in the works. I for one will say, another try next year ! The AC committee would have been wise to inform the parties before their public announcement but I see no ground for any blame (outside the Hobie group themselves that is) beyond that.

Sure I'm biased as hell but I wonder what I would choose as an Alter Cup Chair when faced with the choice on how to decide who is the ultimate NA sailor ; using standard issue and previously used hobie 16's or brand new modern racing machines like the Viper F16's ?

Yes, call me biased for choosing a new Ferrari over a second hand Ford Pinto (that has the stereo removed ! ).

Wouter

Wouter,

The Alter cup 2009, organized by US sailing will be conducted under the racing rules of sailing.

The latest version of the racing rules will be in effect (hint: RRS 2005-2008 will have been superceded). Do a little homework and read the rules: ISAF class rules can only be modified with written permission of the class (in this case the Hobie Class).

The spinnaker is only allowed under Hobie Class rules for youth events. The class voted no modifying the rules to use the spinnaker for the Alter Cup (not a youth event).

The Hobie Class in North America wishes to maintain the Hobie 16 as a strong and vibrant one design class and to keep costs reasonable. This is the wishes of the vast majority of the active Hobie 16 racers. They do not want the class split by the introduction of the spinaker - and did not want to promote use of the spinaker on the boat at the Alter Cup - and I can understand and support that point of view (despite being a confirmed spinnaker junky).

Chris Green
Chair, Division 6.

Wouter, stop being an butt.

You have no idea what really happened in the US over the decisions on what boat to use.

I know that in the US, the Hobie 16 with a Spi is not something that the Hobie 16 Class wishes to promote as a class.

Holy Crap, you weren't kidding Wouter. KABOOM!

Now here is a guy who has found the right way to view my posting !



Wouter

Sure is going to be a hard sell asking Hobie 16 sailors to support this event in the future.

Yep, that is probably true.

Wouter

A hard sell ?

Area C has Hobie Division 11 which had 110 racers competing this year in their highpoint scored events. some sail multiple boats... so about 100 individuals.

Plus... 50 A Cats competing in the Atlantic Coast high point (Area A and Area C) event.

That is probably 125 Racing Sailors in Area C....

Alter Qualifier turnout... 4! (all hobie sailors)

Bob... How much lower can it go before its simply a farce!

Without changes ... it's a waste of money! We could punt on the adult championship and invest the money in an elite junior multihull program.

Mark,

I consider that area more the exception than the rule. Other areas do have pretty good turnouts at their qualifiers. Area Dn and Ds have been increasing participation numbers in the last 5 years.

What great news. I was really concerned what a standard H16 might due to the Alter Cup participation. I am sure the Hobie guys worked hard to come to an agreement, but it would seem the biggest concerns for their class vs then the Multi-hull championship.

Kevin, Jake, JW I can't begin to imagine the time you spend promoting our sport. Thanks for your time.

Consider this, Greg Goodall and AHPC have come through two years running. That's support for sure.

The qualifier in Area K is well attended every year, and is very competive event.

OK.. What are the numbers ...

Best I ever achieved was about 18 boats in Area C. ... that's under 15% of the racing fleet... We were number 2 or 3 in turnout for a couple of years.

Which Area is getting 30% (a very modest percentage) of the racing sailors out for the championship?

Two of the strongest catamaran racing regions in the country are Hobie divisions in Area C and Area B... you can't blow them off.... Why they don't buy into the Area Championships is an issue that should be looked at.

What you are hearing is that a large number of catamaran racers are feeling that they are disenfranchised by USSA and the Alter committee or simply don't give a damn.

I don't buy the "all is well" with the Alter Cup

ps... the Championship event is still listed for Mission Bay YC on the US Sailing site.

Moving as fast as I can. . . would be interested in ideas to increase participation and interest in the Alter Cup

That's your problem right there.

When the choice of boat matters more than the competition; when you essentially disenfranchise the largest one-design sailing class in the US, you're limiting your participation. Why should the choice of boat make a difference?

Matt, the boat doesn't matter - it was solely the controversy involved. There was pressure from both sides of the Hobie camp. Brent, we chose the Hobie 16 in 2004 and we had a full fleet, so I think that history shows there hasn't been a bias on the committee - in fact we leaned on Hobie Cat two years in a row with the Tiger and the 16. This time, through my unwitting presumption, it got really hot in the kitchen.

Again, I hope we can just move on. Every year, there are people excited about the boat, and people who aren't. We're lucky a different boat gets showcased year to year.

I disagree - it certainly mattered to Brent. I'll bet it matters to a significant number of readers of this forum.

That's not quite true. The results are no longer available on-line, but I recall a lot of the qualifiers decided not to come and you were scratching to fill all the spots a couple of weeks before the event (I know, since I almost got in by petition at the last minute).

Results for the 2004 event, as well as all events through 1999, can be found on the ussailing website.

2004 Alter Cup results

Eric

John's quote is 100% true, we had a full fleet, feel free to draw your own conclusions as to why you almost got in at the last minute