Pat
With all due respect
We have already heard this type of argument from Hobie Europe. First it was a one-time event for the ISAF Youth Worlds. Then the argument that the Youth need to train with the spinnaker so we got pushed into class youth events. Even then Hobie Europe swore up and down that is was only for youth events. It was a short time after that they pushed through the Hobe 16 Spi for the Women's event at ISAF Worlds. Guess what the next step was. The women need to train at class events. See a trend here? The Hobie 16 class is now split in Europe (even for adults). The rest of the world has rejected this trend. This is all way more important to the class than one silly Alter cup regatta.

BTW: The HCA Board of Dircetors voted no to this Alter cup question.

would this be the same discussion if they said race the Tornado as "classic rig" its not the current configuration legal. Would the tornado association allow that? Same argument isn't it?

No not the same at all. The Olypics is a completely different ball of wax.

The subversive part is that our class Executive Director is in league with Hobie Europe and working against the expressed will of the class.

Now that's funny!

Draw what conclusions you want, but I think that a lot of "spinnaker snobs" punted when they found out what boat the 2004 Alter Cup was going to be sailed in. They should all be ashamed of themselves.

Matt,

I agree with 99% of what you post both here and on SA, but I have to take issue with this. Just speaking for our team, we raced nearly 100 Tiger or F18 starts this year, including the NAs and the Alter Elims - and that doesn't even include Melges 24 and 32 starts. Even if we won the Alter Elims (which we only sailed to support our Area L fleet and US Sailing), we would have declined the invite to the Alter Cup. It has nothing to do with snobery, our team weighs 360lbs combined and our focus is on F18 (and we all know that competive weight even for a Tiger is 330)- why would we expend another regatta date to fly across the country to jump in a H16 when we know that we would be uncompetitive from the get go due to weight, I am sure the N20 guys would point that out as well.

FWIW - from what I have seen this year (my first season back in cats in 15 years), the Hobie 16 should always be used as the Hobie class to promote entry for new sailors or intros into Cat sailing and should be sailed without a kite. It is a great WW fleet as is, and also a great entry boat into large competitive cat fleets. No snobery, but as experienced sailors that weigh 170-180 each, my crew and I would have no real interest in competing in the event if sailed in H16s, with or without a kite.

Really, sometimes I feel the Hobie 16 fleet has to get over itself, there is a lot of other sailing going on in the world.



Paul Andrepont
Hobie Tiger USA 2477

Try being 200lbs on a Hobie 14. Question: What is the sweet spot for weight on the F16? I know zippo about them.

Oh Lord, dont start Wouter on this, please retract that question before he sees it...!!!!

Seems like when Wouter speaks, people die.

You guys are making a fine case out of why the Hobie 16 might have been a questionable candidate for this year's championship. Just look at all of the controversy and international angst!

And don't get me started on Wouter.

Paul, we've never met and I don't want you to take this the wrong way - but if that's not a snobbish, condescending comment, then I don't know what is. I feel like I've been patted on the head and told, "There, there - don't get so upset. When you get done with your starter boat, then you can race on the big boys' boat."

What's preventing you from getting a 115-125 lb crew to sail with on a 16? Afraid of a little competition? I think it's time the spinnaker snobs stop hiding behind their sweet Portsmouth ratings and start racing mano a mano.

How about we start doing the area eliminations without Portsmouth numbers? Straight one-design just like all the other US SAILING ladder events. It's only a matter of time before we won't find a manufacturer willing to supply new boats.

Thanks for the potted history Matt - it does explain some of the comments and angst that I've seen.

I guess it's only right to respect the view of the majority whether or not you agree with it, however I can't help but feel that the Hobie camp takes itself far, far too seriously what with this and its attitude toward other classes (the infamous Hobie edict springs to mind). Sometimes people just don't help themselves to be better thought of!

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!

The horse and buggy has been chosen. Let the prepartions begin!

Bob

Questionable candidate would be strong wording; I mean, one of the top sailors on a 16 from Minnesota is the size of Bigfoot, and crushes everyone he sails against. Min weight be damned. If non weight sensitive boats were the criteria, the Cougar Catamaran would be an ideal choice then. Its a friggin tank, and doesnt give a crap how fat you are.

Heres an idea...
Monday Race Hobie 16
Tuesday F16
Wednesday F18
Thursday Hobie 18
Friday Hobie 16 with spin(JK) A Cat-crew/skip trade off

If you want to see who the champ is, then give everyone a chance on thier brand of boat. Mix it up, see who wins it.
Now if Hobie, AHPC, NACRA, Marstrom, and Vector will all show up with some boats, then we will be fair. Kevin, get on it!

sure, Bob, whatever you say...

Now you're sounding like a US Sailing bureaucrat.

As a former CSYC Cat sailor and a Tiger sailor I am sure we will meet sometime in the coming year - if we had met, you would learn that I am involved in youth coaching, helping manage/organize olympic youth clinics on the west coast and feel that the two most important one designs are the Laser and the H16, becuase they are entry level WW (cost not ability) and and offer some of the best competition (you read my post wrong which is easy on the internet).

As far as my sailing - never afraid of competition - I try not to race PHRF and I have only sailed one Portsmith event in my life - simply becuase I believe that Formula (F18) and OD (I race Tigers, Lasers, M24s and M32s) are the only true way to get a near even playing field, big fleets and where people do not whine about ratings. However I would not compete in a US Sailing monohull championship event in 420s or 470s with our crew weighting a total 360lbs either.

That said - sailing the US Sailing championships have never been high on my list of events H16 or not, and as a Hobie dues payer (for both myself and my crew) I hate seeing the class slinging mud on the internet. So they chose another boat this year, in my mind, this event is not as important or fair (someone always has a technical or weight advantage) as a N20, F18, F16, Tiger or H16 NAs. You do awesome work - just let this go.

P

Let's get my position clear here; I'm a fan of the Hobie 16 and I firmly believe that the 16 is one of the most difficult boats to master and requires a high degree of skill to sail well. For that matter, I also believe that a championship held on Hobie Waves would be one of the most competitive and tightly contested events ever seen. I was all in favor of the Hobie 16 for 2009 so please don't pin me as someone anti-Hobie or anti-16. I'm just saying that you guys yourselves (the H16 rank and file) are strongly divided about the configuration of the boat and the mention of using it in this event has apparently fueled some international controversy. If I were still chairman, I would not want to be caught in the middle between Hobie USA and Hobie Europe with both trying to make some sort of statement to the other through my championship. The championship is about talented sailors sailing multihulls. The boat should make little difference in the scope of the event on it's own - the decision to use and in what configuration for the Hobie 16 is clearly causing a lot of problems (that I had no previous knowledge of until this thread). This is the point I was trying to make.

Ha ha ha !

But they may indeed come in handy. I'm making myself one of those old celtic shrines. The kind that gets torched in celebration at the winter solstace.

Wouter