W.T.F. this has to do with cat sailing? For f*** sake, move your political discussions somewhere else.

Why does it bother you guys (that are demanding a return to sailing talk)so much that a conversation begins on a non sailing topic? Can't you just leave the thread and go start the topic you want to talk about? I have NEVER understood that logic. Same reasoning with protesting objectionable TV shows or, for some, Talk Radio. Can't you just turn it off and walk away or does it bother you sooooo much that someone else is having a good time?

Explain that to me. Please.

We have the right to bear arms. We have to obey the laws that allow us to bear arms or we go to jail. The only issue that I have is with the gun maufacterers and the ammo that is sold to the public that is far more deadly than anything that is needed to protect yourself against harm or loss of property. for example, an assault rifle that will hold 30 rounds of armor peircing Eagle Claw type bullets that will kill you if it hits you anywhere on your body. This is marketing to criminals that fight against law enforcement for the sake of profit.
A felon cannot buy a hand gun from a gun shop but will easily buy one from a "collector" at a gun show. What kind of crap is that?

EPA

Key term being "ammo first". The plan I've heard is a %500 tax on ammunition. Pisses me off. I'm hoping reloading supplies don't go up at the same rate. I'll be outta luck with rimfire .22 ammo.

It's like I've always said, if you don't like something, shoot it! Problem solved.

Wonder if that would work with laser dinghies.

Note heavy sarcasm.

Not entirely correct. Private sales at gunshows aren't regulated like the sales at the booths. EVERY booth selling ANY firearm must be FFL compliant. The media seems to state otherwise but they are full of $#!t. It's the Joe Nobody with a gun for sale walking around trying to sell it that isn't regulated. I have seen first hand someone refuse to sell their private gun to an individual. I think law abiding gun owners are getting more savy to who they do business with.

Interesting fact: In WWII, Hitler had a detailed plan to invade the US since all our troops were in the Pacific and Europe. It could have worked but the ONE thing that kept him from following through with the invasion, was that Rommell informing him that US CITIZENS OWNED GUNS. He was afraid his troops would fail against the PRIVATELY OWNED FIREARM AND THE PEOPLE OF THE US. I think he was right about failure.

One other thing, not to nitpick but this illustrates the missinformation the media feeds us about gun crap; An armor piercing bullet does far less tissue damage than a hollow point bullet (you mentioned Eagle Claw but I think you meant the Black Talon handgun bullets). The armor piercing will penetrate further since the bullet deforms less and pass clean through with less tissue damage than even most lead bullets. Most normal hunting ammo for rifles will penetrate police body armor but it's not called "armor piercing".

We all have the right to stand up for what we believe is right. I have nothing against any of you who believe opposite of me. I simply choose my stance based on the primal instinct of being able to fend for myself and not relying on anybody else to do it for me. I'll try to shut up now.

Do you seriously believe that? I'm truly sorry you live with such a cloud in your life.

PS...Are you SURE that you don't live in South Carolina?

With our current administration, and the possibility of removing the 2nd Amendment, yeah. Its not a cloud, it is what it is.

Chummy, you are right on all counts. Why should Joey Bagodonuts be able to sell pieces of his collection to a felon with out documentation. That is the problem. Legit gun dealers sell at gun shows as well, legitimatly. And yes, claw bullets are on the other end of armor piercing rounds but my point is the same... do I need this stuff to protect my family in my home? where my children play? Maybe I'll sell the Dodge Ram and get a tank.

See you at Tradewinds oe Steeplechase. I'll be supporting you, with a side arm.

E

Karl: "This too shall pass"- Old Smart Guy. I felt the same way when yer buddy "Dub-yah" got elected. Have a beer, fergit about it. 'Sides Saxby Chambliss just got elected down in Georgia. The Dems will have to resort to old fashioned politics for a while. The Republic is safe.

But just in case. . . http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3D50%2Bcaliber%2Bsniper%2Brifle&w=1652&h=1048&imgurl=www.inetres.com%2Fgp%2Fmilitary%2Finfantry%2Frifle%2FM107%2FM107_1.jpg&size=327.3kB&name=M107_1.jpg&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inetres.com%2Fgp%2Fmilitary%2Finfantry%2Frifle%2FM107.html&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inetres.com%2Fgp%2Fmilitary%2Finfantry%2Frifle%2FM107.html&p=50+caliber+sniper+rifle&type=jpeg&no=2&tt=224&oid=359cae1987748328&tit=M107_1.jpg&sigr=11rjbqpst&sigi=11q62q1a1&sigb=12185vm7p

If you buy three they'll throw in a box of ammo.

Black Talons"Claw bullets" are illegal, and have been for quite some time.
Joey Bagodonuts can only sell long guns ( rifles and shotguns) at a show without having a purchase permit from the buyer.
If you'd like to protect your family in your home with inferior ammo, such as readily available jacketed ammo then you are a threat to your neighbors as well. Ammo that opens up stops when it hits stuff.The jacketed stuff rolls on through.
I'm sure I'm wasting my time with this as it sounds like most who've argued don't seem to care about facts or reality. If the knowledge base of the non-gun owning person is indicative of the info in this thread, I'm happy they don't own guns, just don't try to take everyone elses, and learn the facts before you type a bunch of B.S. Like Lee said the media has you snookered.
Pete,
How about finding me some stats for a crime committed with a .50 cal. sniper rifle.Then try baseball bat.
Todd

. . . and three or four sets of brand new Goodall sails!

.50cal is so freakin expensive to shoot. Like $7+ a squeaze for match ammo, so if I buy 3 and sell the other two to convicts that could be a good deal .

And you wonder why some of us want to license guns and ammo?

Ok try this. It might clear things up.Doubt it, but who knows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GNu7ldL1LM&feature=related

OK, agree the 50 cal is not a good choice. But my 12 gage pump with 18.5 inch barrel, is legal, and effective. Turns out it is now the weapon of choice in Iraq, for house to house clean up.

Cpt. USAR, Ordnance Corp 1959-1967

first the whales now gun debates

this forum's going down hill.....

imho

When I started Catamaran Sailor magazine back in 1995, I named it "Sailor" rather than "Sailing," because I wanted it to be about the people as much as about the sport. I wanted to be able to cover all the things that interest sailors -- not just sailing. We all have other interests, like skiing, woodworking, golf, tennis, bicycling, camping, car renovations, and on and on.

I like to think that these forums, which are a spinoff from the magazine, are a place where sailors can share their other interests and activities besides sailing.

I'm not big on the politics threads, but nobody has to read them if they are not interested. At least you know that you are talking to fellow sailors, no matter what the subject.

I think the 12 ga. pump is the original "assualt weapon". Wasn't it invented for trench warfare, circa WWI?

My wife always vetos any weapon I propose. But if I really thought I needed one, it would be a 20 ga. autoloader with #4s and cut down to the legal minimum. That's enough power to take anyone off their feet (if they're inside my house). Most importantly it's "tame" enough I could teach her to use it effectively. Not many ladies want to deal with a 12 gauge!

BRAVO, Mary.....

I was thinking about this last night, but in a way, this topic DOES relate to sailing and sailors..... Follow me on this train of thought.

Sailing, Surfing, (and lots of others) I believe, attracts people who might be traditionally called free-spirits. People who love their sport and don't take kindly to those that want to "regulate" or impede their ability to enjoy their endeavor fully. Awhile back there was a thread on the restrictions California environmentalists wanted to put through (or did put through, I forget) that restricted the growth of catsailing on that coast. Something about ordinances on the what could be dragged on the shore coupled with zoning ordinances on what could be seen from the road etc etc etc.

I think this all falls into the same catagory of OTHERS (Gov't, environmentalists, rules committees) trying to impose their view of the world on others.

AND IT'S GOTTEN WAY OUT OF CONTROL........


O'Reilly last night reported on Washington State allowing an AETHEIST PRONOUNCEMENT next to the traditional Christmas manger.

Olympic Committees deciding not sending catamarans to the Olympics.

Talk Radio needing to be "controlled" and changed with the Fairness (now that's a misnomer) Doctrine.

Liberal Democrats deciding that unions can eliminate (my opinion) a basic American institution of the SECRET BALLOT and coerce enrollment.


It goes on and on..... And here is why these issues reasonate with sailors in my opinion. They go against our core beliefs of just let me be..... Let me go sailing when, where and how I want. Give me water and wind and I'm good.
Heck, I don't like having to even register my sailboats every year and put those ugly numbers and letters on the side.

Emd of Rant.