Just wanted to get a few opinions here about what you all think should be the responsibility of the skipper when it comes to the safety of your crew and others.
This actually happened at a regatta last spring at Lake Sommerville in Texas: The winds were pretty honkin and one P 19 had a front crossbeam failure causing the boat to break in half and injure the crew enough that she needed to be rushed to th emergency room with a bad knee injury. I'm not real anal about boat rigging but this boat looked pretty bad before it broke. I wouldn't want to sail on it. Anyway, while someone else took said crew to the emergency room, the skipper was somewhat amused by how bad his boat broke apart. He was a former rigger in the Clearlake area and upon looking at the mess, I think I have a good idea as to why he went out of business. He showed no concern at all about his crew. From what I was told, he never went to the hospital to check on her. He packed up the mess and went home. I later got a call from one of her friends asking to help find the skipper since he wouldn't return the crew's phone calls as she needed surgery for her injury. She had no health insurance. The word I got was he didn't have insurance on the boat either. I could be wrong on that one but who knows.
I believe the skipper should be fully responsible for the crew's safety and well being.

The only time I would accept full responsibility would be when a minor is involved. I've no idea how the law comes down on the issue.

I fully agree that the skipper is responsible for the safety of the crew and is liable for her injuries. I don't know the law in texas but here in cali she would own his house and boat now.

The guy does seem like a jerk, but maybe I'll just sail solo from now on.

While I certainly think that the skipper holds a great deal of responsibility when it comes to the boat condition and the operation of the vessel, I also believe in a strict sense of self-responsibility.

If this crew member willingly knew that this boat was unseaworthy and agreed to go out on it anyways, then she bears the responsibility of what happens to her during an accident. When it boils down to it, nobody is holding a gun to her head and forcing her to sail on a boat that she (presumably) knew was not safe.

All of the above is based on the premise that the boat was obviously busted before it left the beach. When deception or negligence comes into play, the waters are considerably muddied.

I've seen some pretty derelict vessels "make it" much further than you think they would (hell, look at the cheese scow thread on sailing anarchy!) and when something breaks and hurts someone, it becomes a question of whether or not the owner/skipper's action or inaction led to the events that caused the injury. For example, if I just replaced my crossbeam on my N20, and the next time we go out, it buckles due to a structural defect. In the process of breaking, poor Bailey gets his noggin hit. Should I be held responsible even though I replaced the beam with what I presumed was a structurally sound one? How about if we're sailing along, and hit a submerged object with a daggerboard causing a pitchpole which causes crew injury?

If you have a passenger in your car and run off the road due to bad tires are you liable? Yes.
I feel the same issues apply with the boat. I personally always sail with insurance covering me my boat and anyone on the boat , as well as liability for any thing else.

I'm insured as well. I think we agree when the skipper is negligent, but is the skipper always liable? How about a serious injury during a pitchpole?

Bailey is not a good example. He would just shrug it of and find a way to fix it.

For the most part, youguys are on the same page as I am on the matter. Boat condition and assesment of it are the skippers responsibility. Conditions? In the 07 Tybee, I opted out of leg 3 due to the fact that I didn't feel my crew was up to it. I felt I was but I was afraid if he lost his marbles out there things could get way worse trying to drive the boat and keep him safe. I guess I assume the worst and prepare for it. In the end, it's my responsibility to get the crew back to the beach in one piece.

IMHO, i feel he only is responsible if he was negligent. If she could tell the boat was not in great repair she owns the responsibility for her safety. Unless he knew there was a defect that was not visible, and he didn't inform her ... then he was negligent.

It does speak allot that he wouldn't return her calls, and didn't seem to care about her injuries... perhaps she used bad judgment sailing with someone of such low character.

I used to take every attractive young lady i could talk into a ride out on my boat. Someone i look up to pointed out that there are inherent risks with sailing, and to be sure my crew understands this.. and that i only take out people i feel will respect this, and react appropriately to my direction...

I see how a skipper could be held responsible.
But doesn't the crew, especially in a regatta where they most likely have done it before and know what they are getting themselves into, assume the risk and therefore are responsbile for knowlingly endagering themsleves?

IMHO they are both at fault.

For the crew to take part in a dangerous sport without health insurance.
The skipper for not having his boat insured, insurance is mandatory for regattas over here.
(Being a jerk is not illegal).

Injuries can happen even on the best equipped boats (remember Ashby broke his ankle).

Would it be rude to inquire as to the health of the mast? I am looking for a straight undented P19 mast.

Who is the more irresposible person here, the one with no health insurance is right up there...

This can and probably will happen to many skippers, regardless of boat condition. You might want to have your crew sign a "Libiltiy release" if you are concerned. Even if your crew is your "best friend" or even your brother, and you KNOW he would never sue you, what if he dies in some freak accident (hits power lines while raising your mast while you are in the men's room) and then his wife sues you?

And what about car wrecks? This happens all the time, where the driver lives but a passenger (or two) is killed. Remember Hulk Hogan's kid who crashed while street racing his car and maimed his passenger? He went to jail AND is being sued.

Maritime law states very clearly that a skipper is responsible for the safety or his crew and vessel. No question about this incedent.

Always carry insurance folks. It's cheap and well worth it.

I accept that responsibility as a skipper.

If you pitchpole and your crew gets hurt see my first sentence for your answer.

But let's not tell the crews.

I forgot to mention low experienced crew and they never sailed together before. Mike is spot on as far as I'm concerned.

Well, I guess I will sail solo.

Just out of curiosity, does maritime law cover inland waters?

Hey Lee,

Just curious about why you're asking on this forum. This is clearly a question for a marine lawyer. Our opinions don't matter at all when it comes time to collect.

Now, if you're just fishing, carry on...

Mike

Well, it is a forum where opinions can and should be voiced :P

After all, we all have opinions, and they all stink :P

I am fairly anal about the status of my boat in terms of rigging. Yes, some things aren't the way they should be (can't find an eye strap small enough for one of the trap lines, etc) but as owner and skipper you are responsible for making sure your boat is safe and that the person you are sailing with has some sort of idea of what to expect and the dangers involved. That being said, I occasionally crew on a boat that isn't 100% the way I would like it to be (but not nearly as bad as a monohull I used to sail on... I was always waiting for something to break on that boat) and wouldn't sue that skipper if I got hurt - since I knew the risks. Problem is the off the beach recreational sailor who just wants a fun ride. What do they know about the forces involved on these boats? They might not interpret it as more than a sunfish.

BTW... not having insurance on your boat is very dangerous. but that being said, the medical coverage on the policy isn't very high. Just got another quote on the 31 and the medical payments were only 10000. That would probably just cover the ER bill and surgery on the knee. Anything more extensive- like decent head injury would go way beyond that.