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NSW Inaugural F16 States at Kurnell #16582
02/23/03 03:31 PM
02/23/03 03:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
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taipanfc Offline OP
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Morning all

We had 7 F16s (all Taipans) at out inaugural NSW State Titles on the weekend. Light and shifty conditions on Saturday with the wind around 5-8 knots. Sunday again saw shifty condition of 10-15 with lots of rain squalls. 5 races plus a marathon.

Racing was tight and fun with the last of 5 heats seeing the top 4 racing within 50m of each other the whole race.

The event was won by Andrew Williams and Petra Eggl from Andrew Collins and Kingsley Pursch. All 7 were sloops with kites.

Full results to be posted on http://www.kcc.ozehosting.com.au/ later in the week.

Cheers
JC

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Re: NSW Inaugural F16 States at Kurnell [Re: taipanfc] #16583
02/24/03 12:02 PM
02/24/03 12:02 PM
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North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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James,

Thanks for the link. Welcome to the class. As soon as the Kurnell club has the results I will link them to the F16 webpage. Hopefully I 'll also have done a bit of redesigning the webpage by then.

Our thanks to the Kurnell catamaran club and to the Nacra 5.8 class for having us at their venue.

JC any change of you and somebody else (Hopefully Andrew himself) of giving us a race report ? This has become sort of a tradition in the F16 class, often the winner of the event takes care of that.

Personally I'm very interested in the marathon which could give a good comparison between the T' with spi and the Nacra 5.8 (with spi ?)

Ohh, by the way, the race reports will be bundled and placed online. Over time this will become the official F16 event history.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
And the results of the Australian NSW F16 state .. [Re: Wouter] #16584
02/24/03 12:40 PM
02/24/03 12:40 PM
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Wouter Offline
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<**** of the bay"

I will give two result lists The first being the elapsed time result list NO HANDICAP

1hour 28min 10sec AUS260 OlympicTornado S Medwell
1" 33' 46 : AUS166 F16hp M Cook
1" 33' 52 : AUS1575 Nacra5.8 T Lowder
1" 35' 12 : AUS129 F16hp A Collins
1" 38' 03 : AUS315 OlympicTornado D Hart
1" 38' 03 : AUS104 Taipan4.9Sloop D Alphorp
1" 49' 59 : AUS270 OlympicTornado J Stone
1" 50' 22 : 0002002 Nacra5.0 B Geisker
2' 06' 50 : 0001206 Nacra5.8 D Warne
DNF AUS147 F16hp A Williams
DNF 000002 Nacra14Sq B Argall
DNF 000103 NacraF18 C Brewin



And now the result list using HANDICAP numbers :

1 0001575 T Lowder Nacra5.8
2 AUS260 S Medwell OlympicTornado
3 AUS166 M Cook F16hp
4 AUS129 A Collins F16hp
5 AUS104 D Apthorp Taipan4.9Sloop
6 AUS315 D Hart OlympicTornado
7 002002 B Geisker Nacra5.0
8 000270 J Stone OlympicTornado
9 001206 D Warne Nacra5.8


That was all folks, Now we only have to wait for the race report !

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: NSW Inaugural F16 States at Kurnell [Re: Wouter] #16585
02/24/03 04:21 PM
02/24/03 04:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 539
taipanfc Offline OP
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In the marathon, the Nacra 5.8 did not have a spinnaker. The course however had a lot of reaching which obviously benefited the Nacra as neither the Tornado of F16 could not get the kite up. There were 8 legs and the kites were only up for 2.5 of them.

JC

Re: NSW Inaugural F16 States at Kurnell [Re: taipanfc] #16586
02/25/03 01:20 AM
02/25/03 01:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 58
Canberra, Australia
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ABC Offline
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Ok, you all asked for it. Just something I spewed out onto the machine. Willy is quite busy at the moment but might add his comment as well but you should get the idea....

7 boats in total made it to Kurnell in Sydney for the NSW F16hp State Titles on the 22nd and 23rd of February. 3 boats from Sydney, 2 from Canberra, 1 from Newcastle and 1 making the 10 hour trip from Bendigo. All boats were Taipan F16s.

The crews were as follows:
035 Bullet – Daniel Van Kerchof and Annaliese Byrne
099 Kinetic – James Cole and Jen Stalker
105 Two Fang Tango – Kez Stevens and Steve Medwell
129 Alphabet Soup – Andrew Collins and Kingsley Pursch
147 Wet Willy – Andrew Williams and Petra Eggl
166 Fully Blown – Michael Cook and Nathan Van Kerchof
260 n/a – Liam? Goodall and Brett Goodall

The race format was to have one race in the morning and then two back to back in the afternoon on Saturday and two back to back on the Sunday morning.
Race 1 started in a bit under 10 knots with crews double trapezing most of the time upwind. Dan and Annaliese missed the start having only received the spinnaker kit on the morning of the regatta they were still setting things up – plus, Dan’s lazy . The breeze was quite shifty coming from the south and this being Willy’s home club he showed the rest of the fleet where to go. The class format had the F16hp’s starting with the Tornado’s and an A Class instead of the F18s so it was a little hard to judge our speed differential.

Race 2 made it easier though with Michael Cook (Cookie) romping in a victory and actually beating some of the Nacra F18s around the course after they started 5 minutes ahead of us! Dan made it onto the water and Annaliese showed us why she’s a super crew with a 2nd place in her first sail with a kite.

Race 3 saw Cookie’s halyard pully seize relegating him to running standard for just about the whole race. The breeze had picked up slightly to near 15kts at times which made for some fun rides though we were all still experimenting with crews and skippers on and off trapeze when the kites were up. If we thought the racing was fun on the Saturday though , none of us were really prepared for how close things were at the top on Sunday....

The wind had picked up fairly significantly for the Sunday morning as rain and wind squalls moved across the course. There were times though where the wind dropped down near 10 kots though. Kingsley and I did a rather spectacular stack straight over the front on the way to the start line as we had just set the kite which provided amusement for the rest of the fleet as well as the start boat.

We picked ourselves up and the fluro orange jib of Alphabet Soup led the fleet around the course for race four with second to Cookie after fixing his halyard from the day before.

The last race was just awesome. Four boats absolutely smokin’ around the course in about 18knots all within 50 metres of each other. Mark roundings, cross tacks, everything was close. All four boats led the race at one point and there were enough boats in the group that you couldn’t afford to cover one boat or the other two would sneak by. As we were sailing around I thought to myself that you only get this close racing in really big fleets when there are boats all around you anyway. The kite drops at the gate bottom mark were.... um..... interesting shall we say.

The final results show Willy taking the title by only one point and two tiebreaks in the rest of the results!

One interesting note was that Helen Sharrock was on the start boat and was timing us around the course and noting our deltas with the F18s. In the decent breeze around 15-18kts we were pulling back only up to 30 seconds per lap on them but when the breeze died out the deltas were more like a minute to a minute and a half! Just an interesting side point.




Taipan 4.9 AUS129 AlphabetSoup
Re: NSW Inaugural F16 States at Kurnell [Re: ABC] #16587
02/26/03 04:07 PM
02/26/03 04:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 344
Arkansas, USA
Kirt Offline
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Andrew-
Thanks for the great note! I'm having trouble deciphering your "Aussie" though- Probably because we don't really speak "English" up here in the US.
Can you please tell me what "we were pulling back only up to 30 seconds per lap on them " means? Does this mean it was taking you 30 seconds more per lap, 30 seconds less per lap, or??

Thanks,
Kirt


Kirt Simmons Taipan #159, "A" cat US 48
Re: NSW Inaugural F16 States at Kurnell [Re: Kirt] #16588
02/26/03 05:52 PM
02/26/03 05:52 PM
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Canberra, Australia
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Yeah, reading through it again it does seem a bit confusing.

"we were pulling back only up to 30 seconds per lap on them"

Translation: It took us 30 seconds less to complete each lap.

Probably should read through stuff before I post it up.


Taipan 4.9 AUS129 AlphabetSoup
Re: NSW Inaugural F16 States at Kurnell [Re: ABC] #16589
02/27/03 05:27 PM
02/27/03 05:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
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Arkansas, USA
Kirt Offline
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Kirt  Offline
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Andrew-
Thanks for clarifying that. So you were only slightly faster than the F18's in the higher winds but this margin was doubled or tripled at the lighter winds
Do you think this had to do with the F18's being more experienced in the higher winds w/ the spi or are they relatively underpowered in the lighter stuff while you were over powered? Difference in spi shapes? Or was the difference predoninantly upwind?

Thanks again!

Kirt


Kirt Simmons Taipan #159, "A" cat US 48
Re: NSW Inaugural F16 States at Kurnell [Re: Kirt] #16590
03/02/03 05:18 PM
03/02/03 05:18 PM
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Hi Kurt,

I'm not entirely sure of where we were picking up the ground (upwind or downwind) as Helen was only taking the times when we were going through the bottom gate mark.

Due to the lighter weight of the F16s (both boats and crews) I guess we power up a lot quicker in the lighter stuff whereas when the wind kicked in we were depowering while the F18s were just coming to their optimum wind range.

Dan has commented on several occasions that with the light weight and high powered rig of the F16 they tend to heel over really quickly with the kites up when a puff hits. Its almost as if they heel over and then start to accelerate. In contrast, the heavier weight of the F18 tends to slow the heeling moment down and the boat accelerates as it heels. But, not having sailed an F18 myself, I can't really say categorically. Plus, the F18s were sailing 5 minutes ahead of us so weren't sailing in the same patch of water unfortunately.

Just as a side note, the top four F16s were 2nd, 7th, 5th and 4th respectively at the recent Taipan Nationals.


Taipan 4.9 AUS129 AlphabetSoup
Re: NSW Inaugural F16 States at Kurnell [Re: Kirt] #16591
03/02/03 07:03 PM
03/02/03 07:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
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Australia (Queensland)
Berthos Offline
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I suspect other reasons that the F18's performed better in the stronger winds (or that the F16's performed worse) is the advantage that a longer hull has in bigger waves.

The heavier weight of the F18 would tend to be slowed down less when smacking into waves as well.

These comments assume of course that there were bigger waves in the stronger winds which is usually but not always the case of course. I wasn't there so I'm only guessing. Andrew?

Rob Wilson.

Re: NSW Inaugural F16 States at Kurnell [Re: ABC] #16592
03/02/03 09:01 PM
03/02/03 09:01 PM
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Wouter Offline
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I would like to throw in the fact that the F18's today have a much larger sqauretop rig than the Taipans. It is very likely that is results in a F18 rig that sheds air alot better and quicker than the more modest Taipan squaretop. There are some good experimental examples that support this.

Of course their are bound to be some differences between the classes as one design will favour particular conditions more than others. Having said this I think that 30 secs to 90 secs make these boats very equal in general and could easily be accounted for by the fact that the Taipan crews have their Taipans down while the rather new F18's crews are still on the improvement curve.

If anything the two platform seem close enough for some open class fun racing on elapsed time (NO handicap!)

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: NSW Inaugural F16 States at Kurnell [Re: Berthos] #16593
03/02/03 09:06 PM
03/02/03 09:06 PM
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Canberra, Australia
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hmmm... I like your thinking but can't really recall the waves being much of an issue over the regatta. We were sailing at Kurnell in Sydney in a south/south-easter so there wasn't much to speak of in terms of waves. A few big rollers curling round from the mouth of the bay but not really of much concern.


Taipan 4.9 AUS129 AlphabetSoup
Re: NSW Inaugural F16 States at Kurnell [Re: ABC] #16594
03/03/03 06:10 AM
03/03/03 06:10 AM
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Australia (Queensland)
Berthos Offline
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Berthos  Offline
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Damn!!

I thought I was being so clever.....

Re: NSW Inaugural F16 States at Kurnell [Re: Wouter] #16595
03/04/03 07:37 PM
03/04/03 07:37 PM
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Western Australia
Stewart Offline
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W.. I agree sounds a little like the Ts needed their rigs to be a little more "automatic"..


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