| Little America's Cup is Revived! #16976 03/06/03 01:47 PM 03/06/03 01:47 PM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary OP
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | (We have been sitting on this story for two weeks, and we were sworn to secrecy and not allowed to print anything until the official announcement was made. That happened a short time ago. Unfortunately, we are not able to load things onto our welcome page right now because of a glitch that resulted from moving our server to a new location. So I am posting the story that Rick and I wrote right here for the time being. Just couldn't wait any longer.)
The International Catamaran Challenge Trophy (ICCT), also known as the Little America's Cup has been lying dormant now for seven years ever since Duncan MacLane of the USA skippered Cogito, with Erich Chase as crew, to victory over the Australians in 1996. The race has always been on C-Class development boats, but a new format was announced today that will feature match racing on Formula 18HT catamarans. For this first year only, the ICCT will be done on production Bimare Javelin 2's that will be provided for the event. This exception is being made to facilitate getting the event on the water this year. To clarify, the Deed of Gift has been changed to provide for the event to be done on F-18HT's henceforth, so after this year, it will be open to all F-18HT's.
Twenty teams will vie for the trophy September 27 through October 2 at Newport, Rhode Island – ten of the teams will battle it out for the Defender Group (United States sailors) and ten of the teams will fight for the top position in the Challenger Group (sailors not from the United States). Then the top team from each group will sail for the Little America's Cup. Sail Newport is hosting the entire event.
The trials will be over a two-day span with a third day allowed in case of inclement weather. That would allow three days of match racing for the top Defender and Challenger. There are plans to run 20-minute races with windward-leeward courses twice around for the trials and starts going off every five minutes. This is necessary since it will require 48 races to determine the top boat from each group. That means 96 races in total, and that is before the real racing begins. The defender and challenger then will be competing for three days.
June 1 will be the deadline for team applications. Only ten teams will be accepted for each group – the Defender (USA) Group and the Challenger Group (non-USA). If more than 10 teams apply, a decision will be made by June 15 on the final competitors to be accepted for the event. The International Catamaran Challenge Trophy was born in 1961 when the Sea Cliff Yacht Club of Long Island, New York, donated the trophy initially for competition between England and America. The intent was that the competition would be held every two years.
The event was held 22 times from 1961 to 1996 when Cogito, the U.S. challenger skippered by Duncan MacLane and owned by Steve Clark, defeated the Australian defender Yellow Pages Edge by a score of 4-0 in the best-of-seven series. Cogito brought the trophy back to America after it had stayed in Australia for 11 years.
Ironically, the Australian boat, Yellow Pages Edge, had some bad luck in the 1996 competition that is reminiscent of the misfortunes of the New Zealand team in this year's America's Cup. During the second race, disaster struck. Skipper Simon McKeon and crew David Churcher lost control of the boat on the run to the leeward mark (reportedly in about 12 knots of wind) and Edge capsized, breaking off the wing sail. This left Cogito to complete the course alone. The next day was a lay day, which gave Edge time to put on a mast from a sister boat, but Edge was unable to win any race in the series.
From 1996 to 2000 the trophy was on display at Clark's home club, the Bristol Yacht Club in Bristol, Rhode Island. The deed of gift requires that if no challenge is conducted for more than four years (two events skipped), the trophy returns to the place of its birth, Sea Cliff Yacht Club in Long Island, NY. Steve Clark returned the trophy in 2000.
The deed of gift for the ICCT is overseen by a board of trustees, and potential challengers must go through them.
For the past two years, there were rumors that one or more Australian syndicates planned to make a challenge, but nothing ever became official.
According to one report, in late February the Australians made their challenge bid, but they were told that it was too late, that other arrangements were already being made (referring to the plans to do the ICCT on the Formula 18HT).
Steve Clark, whose boat Cogito is the defending champion, is understandably upset that the format has been changed to use an 18-foot beach cat instead of a C-Class. According to Clark, it was actually in December of 2002 that the Australians submitted their challenge and "they were told to go away."
In a release on March 5, Clark said, in part: "We have learned that the Trustees propose to replace the regatta which showcased the most efficient sailing machines on the planet with a round robin regatta in production beach cats. Talk about lowered standards! Talk about dumbing it down! "In spite of the decision of the Sea Cliff Trustees, we have met with the Australians and believe they are a viable team. We anticipate proceeding with an event in the fall of 2004 to again determine who has the fastest course racing sailboat in the world. Stay tuned for new developments."
The board of trustees for the deed of gift have made application to officially acquire the name "Little America's Cup" as a trademark name or copyrighted or whatever status is required to be able to keep someone else from using that name for another sailing event. (Randy Smyth suggested that "Little America's Cup" is kind of demeaning, and that it should really be called "Fast America's Cup.")
Correction: It was earlier stated that Peter Reggio will be principal race officer. This is not accurate at this point. The Board of Trustees is talking to Reggio about serving as PRO for this event. Reggio is well known in top racing circles, having been the PRO for the Louis Vuitton Series of the America's Cup, Sailing World's NOOD Regattas, and the Block Island Race. He would be a prestigious addition to this event, but nothing is definite at this point.
| | | Re: Little America's Cup is Revived!
[Re: Mary]
#16977 03/06/03 02:58 PM 03/06/03 02:58 PM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 800 MI sail6000
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Posts: 800 MI | Hi Mary -Hi Rick ,-good article as always . Sounds like a great event to be part of , I,m not aware of any --match racing on cats ,-- other than past Fast Am Cup events on C Class cats , these were more a test of design innovation . We raced the Prosail event in Newport and the Ultimate Yacht Race event close by in Mystic in Oct ,then on H-21s new at the time with spin --in 88 ---very breezy and cold that time of year ,- but quarentees good high winds ,--and drysuits . Interesting news for the 18 HT Builders - how many are there now and several others planning including Stealth Marine and Boyer ,--think there is the Jav 2 the Ventilo 18 HT --and a few others currently to choose from . The Worrell is getting interesting also . | | | Re: Little America's Cup is Revived!
[Re: Mary]
#16978 03/06/03 03:04 PM 03/06/03 03:04 PM |
Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 806 Toronto, Ontario pitchpoledave
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Posts: 806 Toronto, Ontario | ugh. Its turned into yet another beach cat event. It would be really great to keep with bigger cats. C class or formula 40 or whatever, but not beach cats. Don't get me wrong, I love beach cats, but the AC is supposed to be a no holds barred "ultimate" event. Its like turning an F1 race event into a showroom stock event. | | | Re: Little America's Cup is Revived!
[Re: Mary]
#16981 03/06/03 05:49 PM 03/06/03 05:49 PM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 290 Pensacola, Florida / Katy, Tex... Cookie Monster
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Posts: 290 Pensacola, Florida / Katy, Tex... | I salute and thank those responsible for resurrecting this event. Let's face it -- It was DEAD. I always did enjoy the C Class catamarans, but the event always seemed like a design competition event more so, than an actual sailing event. Who could design the fastest boat, and would it stay together? I would like to see it continue, but under a different format. The new format is a great. How many beach cat sailors know anything about match racing? It's not how fast you go, but you just have to finish before that other boat. Just getting this event back on track is a victory for us all. I hope the critics hold their negative opinions for a while and give it a chance to grow.
Don
Last edited by Cookie Monster; 03/06/03 05:50 PM.
Don Cook
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[Re: Mary]
#16982 03/06/03 09:16 PM 03/06/03 09:16 PM |
Joined: Nov 2001 Posts: 138 Florida, Pnellas, USA dartfast
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Posts: 138 Florida, Pnellas, USA | Mary, Just an opinion: Tony must be rotating slowly in his grave. After all the effort he put in to his Patient Lady’s and fabulous work he and Duncan did to make the Little America’s Cup the elate event it is.
After personally witnessing some of the Cup races and seen the work an ingenuity being tested on the water, call it what you may, but what you are talking about is no Little America’s Cup event.
In reality it should be run using the Aqua Cat 12. This would more fitting the memory of the real solid wing or most innovative C-Class of it’s time because the Aqua Cat 12 was the boat most abundant on the grounds of the Rowayton Yacht Club when the Queen was in her glory.
The new venue misses the whole point of the Little America’s Cup. It would be like running the Americas Cup using Lasers. Maybe next time that will be the boat of choice since the Swiss lack water?
It is not just match racing thing, there is something to be said about furthering technology. Sometimes it is better for an event die with dignity but as you stated it even sounded like there was hope for a real revival.
Terry | | | Re: Little America's Cup is Revived!
[Re: Stewart]
#16985 03/07/03 12:52 AM 03/07/03 12:52 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary OP
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | He just meant that the cats in the Little America's Cup are faster than the monohulls in the "big" America's Cup.
As far as which is faster, an F-18HT or a C-Class, two people now have told me that they think the HT would beat a C-Class on a buoy course because the HT's downwind advantage with spinnaker would outweigh the C-Class' advantage upwind with wing mast.
The problem in such a match would be agreeing upon the course to be used. All those years when the C-Class cats were doing the race, they used a triangle course that heavily rewarded upwind performance -- about 43 percent of the time upwind compared to 17 percent downwind and the rest in beam and broad reaching.
The new format for the 18HT's will use a windward-leeward format, but even that can be manipulated to favor upwind or downwind performance, depending upon how many windward legs and leeward legs.
So the real problem would be agreeing upon a course that would be equally fair to both boats.
From reports on forums at this site, it sounds like the Australians who tried to submit a challenge have a C-Class almost ready to go, and Cogito owner Steve Clark has already gone on record as saying that he thinks the Australian challenge is viable and that an event between the U.S. and Australia can be done in 2004.
The question is, will it be done for the International Catamaran Challenge Trophy? I presume that will be up to the trustees of the Deed of Gift.
But this year and this new format are what everybody should be concentrating on at this point. Let's see how it works out. It is just great that the trustees have taken some affirmative action to get the show back on the road after this long hiatus. | | | Re: Little America's Cup is Revived!
[Re: dartfast]
#16986 03/07/03 04:46 AM 03/07/03 04:46 AM |
Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland Dermot
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Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland | It's too early in the morning to think of all the things I should say, but, I have to agree with Terry and Stewart. It is pathetic. Have an International match racing event on cats - great ! But do not try to call it the Little America's Cup. The Little America's Cup is part of the history and development of cat sailing.
If the America's Cup was just a match race, without all the history and stories attached to it, would syndicates spend millions trying to win it. They want to be part of history. The Little America's Cup is about development, pushing out the barriers, etc., and it has HISTORY.- Names from this side of the Atlantic like designer Rod MacAlpine Downie and sailors like Reg White, who won in 1964.
Great event - call it by any other name.
Dermot Catapult 265
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[Re: Mary]
#16987 03/07/03 05:20 AM 03/07/03 05:20 AM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 953 Western Australia Stewart
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Posts: 953 Western Australia | Actually the wing is best in 3/4 reach according to Bruce Proctor skipper of Quest 2, Quest 3 and Miss Nylex twice winner of The I.C.C.T.. whatever it is now (the F18ht trophy?)..
According to VYC rating Miss Nylex and her successors have a rating of 57.. The Tornado with genacker has a rating of 66.. If these ratings are true (and they are based on many years of true water effort not speculation) then your friends are suggesting the F18HT is almost 14.5% quicker than the Olympic T.. *chuckles*.. If that is the case then why did the Tornado in that race you had over there recent (bridge to bridge?).. I mean the F18ht would be 8.4 minutes faster per hour!!
Yes one could make a race designed for F18hts.. Short legs uphill and downhill to maximise tacking an gybing but even then they would be worked hard to maintain a Cs speed.. The race would still be won on the uphill legs.
But your correct the trustees have made a mockery of the original trophy.
Finally for the record.. I have walked around the hulls of the Au C.. Yes they would be competative against any C sailing. I have seen the wing mast.. The skipper is good being an exOlympian in Tornados.. Wining a bronze if I recall.. I also believe a second Aussie C is being designed with wave piercing hulls and a new wing mast to trial against the current C.. But the mockery made put paid to the new boat Im not sure..
Last edited by Stewart; 03/07/03 05:22 AM.
| | | Another correction to my story
[Re: Mary]
#16988 03/07/03 05:57 AM 03/07/03 05:57 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary OP
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | Information that was given to me that the Deed of Gift was changed to specify F-18HT's is incorrect. I have now read the Deed of Gift, which was only made available to me late yesterday, and I believe the applicable wording is in paragraph 4(b):
"The Trustees, in furtherance of regular international competition and the development of existing or new Classes, shall, from time to time, select the Class of catamaran in which the competition shall be sailed, and shall publish such information upon each selection within sixty (60) days of the completion of the previous competition."
Sorry, but this is a story that is still evolving, and there may be more corrections and clarifications, which I will pass on as they become known. | | | Congrats to the F18HT
[Re: Mary]
#16992 03/07/03 06:05 PM 03/07/03 06:05 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Congrats to the F18HT; those are in place.
Next I will elaborate on the merits of the decision which are entirely my own opinion and I welcome everybody to disagree.
I'm presonally disappointed that these didn't decide to go for the B-class rules. I feel that those are much closer to the original C-class setup and it would allow the Tornado to defend its reputation as the fastest beach cat around. In effect both the Tornado and F18 have been removed from competition by definition. In effect the choice itself has determined in which way development will be made. With the limit on minimal weight there can be no development there. With the rule that only a mainsail and 75 % spi may be used no developments like for example a hooter sail as championed by Rick White and the Orma tri's will be seen
. Both soft mainsails and 75 % spis have had most of their development done in the tornado, a-cat and F18 classes. I mean what will the reputation of the LAC become when an int. Tornado beats it in open races ? If anything the LAC should be be the epithomy of small catamaran design; what if other designs are build lighter, faster and more efficient then the F18HT; I'm thinking about Marstroms M20 for example.
What is left is the introduction of hard wingsails to the F18HT class, improvements in boards and rudders and planing hulls / hydro foils and aerodynamic improvements like wingshaped beams and aerodynamic suits for the crew and moving the spi gate to the mast top.
I fear that the first will upset the F18HT class a little bit. What if you have a javelin one-design boat and the next guy enters the competition with a LAC wingsail ? My point is that the class will be under pressure to go one way or the other. Either be an affordable high performance Formula class of equal racing (as it was intended to be) or go into a full gear arms race with big guys with serious money who will in only a few years modify the platform into a smaller version of Cognito which will be much less affordable and alot less practical to trailor. I hope the F18HT class will be able to beat the odds in this respect.
I don't think that there is much improvement to be made on the boards and rudders apart from hydrofoiling or bruce foiling.
Planing and hydrofoiling; well that would be a development. But of course when the last improvements proof effective they could make all older F18HT's obsolete with a very short timeframe.
So apart from the point above we are left with smaller aerodynamic improvements such as aerodynamic beams which the current round sections are clearly not. I wouldn't be surprise if the crews will start wearing special aerodynamic shoulder patches and helmets like the bobsleigh sporters are allready doing now.
So from a designers perspective there is not that much meat on the choice to go for a formula setup instead of say an old B-class setup. After hydrofoiling or planing has been fully developped in other than F18HT classes by virtue of the Mattia dynacat F18 and 16 and Ventilo Zipo than there is not much else to develop. Copy a wingsail rig from the latest C-class cats is not development.
The LAC was of course to a very large extend a competition between designers, maybe even more than between crews. Just as the current AC is. The choice will have revived the LAC but a large chunk of the original idea is gone. And the choice may even proof to be a kiss of death for the FORMULA part of the F18HT class.
I wonder why they didn't leave the thropy with the last guy who won it as he made the fastest cat under rules that nobody else beat ? Why let him defend it against platforms with wholy different rules, isn't that like stacking the deck and doing away with the hard earned honour of his win ?
Couldn't we name the new LAc different to set the two class (od and new apart ?
Also why limit a boat to 2.5 mtr width for practical trailoring when hard wingsails are not disallowed ? Wouldn't a 2,35 by 10 mtr hard wing sail be far more impractical to transport than 0,5 mtr extra width ? And if the wingsails are disallowed than what is left to develop other than hydrofoiling / planing ?
Enough of the negatism, so what can be changed in my opinion to spike the new LAC class a bit.
-1- One suggestion is to deregulate the 75 % rule of the spinnaker. This would allow the full development of Hooters which will otherwise will stay undevelopped as they are prohibited in all other classes.
-2- Deregulate the sailplan design. Remove the limit to only a main and spi. Set a higher limit on the sailarea or even allow all sail sizes, preferably taking one limit over all sails. Lets see what the optimal ratios are between main, spi and possibly jibs. As I recall the LAC course features a significant reaching leg. Such an open sail plan could allow the crews to optimize the platform to perform superbly under all conditions and not merely in a few special conditions (just windward / leeward). I think a minimum requirement of a LAC design must be that it can beat a H16 in all conditions (Texel 2002 !); otherwise it will be pretty embarrashing. it will be like beating Alingy's AC boat on a sunfish. Great for the Sunfish but very bad for the LAC rep.
-3- Adjust the width rule which when literally applied would measure the overall width over canted boards and T-foils rudders.
-4- Wildcard high performance classes like the F18's, Tornado's and iF20's to challenge the new LAC platform. If the new LAC can not beat these classes consistantly than it will be time review the rules / choice. If it can than it will have proved that it deserves the LAC status. It will at least put a pepper up the behinds of F18HT designers and hopefully result in some lasting improvements that will progress cat sailing in general.
Like I said in the beginning of my post, this is just my personal opinion and I congratulate the F18HT class with the selection of their class as the LAC.
Wouter
Last edited by Wouter; 03/07/03 06:16 PM.
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
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[Re: 49er]
#16993 03/07/03 06:27 PM 03/07/03 06:27 PM |
Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland Dermot
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Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland | I am not sure what my "fierce sense of Nationality" has to do with the Little America's Cup. Ireland has never had a challenger for the Little America's Cup. Sir Thomas Lipton and The Earl of Dunraven were both Irish challengers for the America's Cup, but that's as close as it gets. I mentioned Reg White (from England - that's across the Irish Sea from Ireland)because I know him, I race one of his Spitfires at the moment.
While I do not want to speak for him, I think that both Stewart and I feel that the F-18HT is a little bit lightweight (I do not mean weight as in lbs) for an event with such a prestigious background.
I have read many other posts today, some suggest using the B, or C class platform, Formula 40 - 60, or maybe based on the Formula 26 or 28. This is more the spirit of the Little America's Cup.
As I said before, I think that bringing the top cat sailors in the world together on one design cats is a great idea. I think that calling it the Little America's Cup is ridiculous. Lets have the International Cat Match Racing Championships and also revive the Little America's Cup - maybe in a new format.
I am not knocking the F-18HT, but while it is an interesting class, it really does not exist outside the US and maybe Italy, where it originated. All the top beachcat sailors sail the Tornado or the F18. Is it a suitable cat to be the centre of International cat sailing ?
Dermot.
Dermot Catapult 265
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