John,

Who guarantees that your boat is class compliant under USPN ?

So how would this situation be different when using a Measurement Based System. Afterall, you guys can decide to waver that certificate requirements and just use the TEXEL or SCHRS ratings.

Wouter

Problem is I have been told various from varois people.

From memory...(all KG)

161
160
159
151
149
145
140
141
139
125

I just want the definitive answer.

Probably Tim

Having said that...in reality what you are asking for cannot be done with any hope of accuracy or regularity.

1. Race committees just do not have the manpower and chase boat resources.

2. Even with the resources and desire, have you ever tried to get a mark exactly where you want it to be? Anchors drag, lines long enough to hold allow the mark to skate in a wide circle. Try on a calm day to drop an anchor straight down in 30...no 5 feet of water. See if you can hit your spot.

3. Even with approximately perfect placements, wind shifts and other factors quickly doom a perfect placement to one not so.

Lap times and actual speed comparisions are interesting, but not practical for handicapping.

BTW, I will be at the 12 hour all next week. Any chance of getting a Blade ride?

Personally, I don't think it will be at all easy to find replacement for Darline. Actually giving a big thank you to Darline and then switch over to either Texel or SCHRS with be the most easily and quickly implemented replacement. No US volunteers required apart from a few measurers that you guys already have/need because of the F18 class.

Wouter

The last I heard about it, the company (Nacra) didn't want to specify a weight, because if they did, they would have to build to it, which would add production costs to tighten up tollerances.

An example....

Every Dart 18 EVER built is issued with a measurement certificate stating that the boat was a Dart 18 when it was made. Thus, as long as the owner keeps the boat class legal, the boat is a Dart 18 and thus sails ofrom that rating. Does Hobie not do the same with all Hobie 16's (for example), does Nacra not do the same with all F17's it sells?

F18 manufacturers I believe are working with ISAF to do this, and so ALL F18's that leave the major factories will ALREADY be measured. Dart / Laser have been doing this for YEARS!!!!!!


SMODS are deemed to measure if they conform to the class rules; it is the OWNERS (or reps) responsibility to ensure the boat measures and/or confirm to class rules.

I can give you a Blade ride on the 15th or the 21st, wind permitting, which I think is the day of the big 12 hour race.

You can drop by during the day, if you get board of watching money go flying around in circles for hours, sail a bit (if there is wind) then go back to the track for the finish and party.

Unfortunately I am going to be out of town working a trip from 16th-20th.

That's a big ask to expect to F18 class measures to measure boats that aren't F18's.

And of course I disagree with you.

Simon, all of that is well understood (by me, at least), but be clear on one simple fact; there are measurers, but they've never measured anything because nobody want to pay the fee or spend the time getting it done. That would take effort. Of all the F18s, only one that is in the US comes with a certificate - none of the others do and the manufacturers are not willing to do in-house certification, period. Puts it back on the measurers and those to be measured.

Wouter - wave the wand and eliminate the rule for certificates? Expedient! Fine with me. Let's see how the vote goes in Denver. Frankly, very frankly, I don't care - no matter which way it goes, it requires people to maintain it.

The simple solution is to issue blaket certificates for each class that has established rules. No need for every boat to have an individual certificate.

Outlyers can get certificates in several ways depending on timely needs. Most could be issued a spot provisional rating and upgrade to an official certificate when time allows.

This isn't that difficult, if certification is to be part of the package.

However, we don't require actual certificates for PH so perhaps we don't need them for another system either.

I am for simplicity. Do we really need certificates?

Looks like we will cross paths. I will be there Monday through Sat. AM.

However, if all goes well we will be in a Blade or Falcon before too long.

Jack - did you ever hear the story of the carbon P19? Or the Hobie 16 that was widened and had the main hoist height modified? Simplicity's great, no arguing. Don't forget, though, that if we waive some of the system's rules we're setting ourselves up to be different from everyone else... again. Kinda like Portsmouth.

No, but I'd add one caviat, weigh every Hobie that enters an Area qualifier

And it begins :-)

I've heard all the stories and I make my living keeping race car folks in line.

Those examples are rare and pretty easy to ferret out. Hard to believe that "corinthians" would do that....but!

I can live with 1% ers spoiling the soup. They will eventually get hungry.

As Americans we have a family tradition of going our own way. Why would we not continue that? Right or wrong.

I can see you now...feet up on the desk, kicking back in that arm chair while lighting a freshly opened stogy. A tarpon-like smirk of approval crosses your face from ear to ear. With the first aromatic exhale of that cigar smoke you say, "And it begins".

You DO realize I hold you personally responsible for this...oh, you're definitely getting a shirt!

Perfect!

Yeah well, you can give me the boot in the nuts next month. Four more weeks and it's Fever Time!

Jack, I might be able to take you out on the afternoon of the 15th if you are not busy at the track. I live about 7 miles west of the track on the lake in the middle of town. I should get home from my trip on Friday (20th) about noon-1pm if all goes to schedule. Now that it is light later, we can sail later in the day. Or maybe Sunday morning, I have to drive my daughter back to Auburn, Al. on Sunday though so I would like to be on the road by 1pm. I'll PM you with my phone number and we can see if we can work something out.

If a boat is within class rules then it DOES conform to the claimed rating for that class. as copied from the SCHRS site, it is the OWNERS responsibility to ensure the rating they claim is correct for the boat in it's current trim.

No problem to solve. Simple as that. How does USPN deal with "Out of class" boats? I assume people turn up with their boat, state it's a Hobie 16 and then go racing on it; If they have an "out of class" sail (for example) it is down to them to declare it. Same happens here with SCHRS. We take part in a self-policing sport.


If people think the boat is out of class (thus not what it claims and so not entitled to sail of that rating) words are spoken, and we can, if there is a need, resort to the protest room, as was done in Carnac with the F17.

If there is a rating on the SCHRS site, and the boat conforms to the class rules for that class (I believe most of the Hobie range have class rules - I assume Nacra do too?, as do the Dart 18, F18, F16, Hurricane etc) then the rating is as stands.