Hi Pepin,

You are correct as I kind of mixed your two sentences together in your first post. But I'm not sure if a new or re-cut jib would be reguired for the installation of a roller furler.

Your advice about when having your jib secured w/ a tie strap when furled is exactly how I leave my TheMightyHobie18 over-night at a regatta ... but I do remove my jib if I'm not sailing the next day. Note I've lost count of how many times I've had to secure someone elses jib flapping in the breeze ... of course you have to remember to UNTIE the strap before leaving the beach (Don't ask me how I know ....)

I could find nothing in the background of the H16 to indicate where the picture was taken ... the custom sails and all-aluminum mast (and your european location) lead me to believe that the picture was from Europe. But my comments about the comptip/spinacker are sound I believe.

I could tell from the cars in the background that the H14's were located in the USA (also the lack of a front license plate indicates to me that one of the cars maybe from Pennsylvania, there are only 2-3 states that do not require both a front and back license plates) Do we know "where" those two H14's are from??? Virginia Beach area??? ... Dan Berger??? .... Dan had organized a nice little fleet of H14's w/ Hooters/Screechers racing in Va Beach several years ago.

I don't think the installation of "Adjustable Spreaders" would be to difficult on a N5.2. They are availible through Annapolis Performance Sailing ie: APS at www.apsltd.com


Harry

You don't need to do as much detective work: as I said, those pictures are from Whirlwind, on their page there are captions locating the H16 on Long Island, New York and the two H14 in North Carolina.

I've never had a comptip, when I was sailing my H16 in California it was an old model, with an all aluminum mast.

I let the main go loose and pull the jib in tight, the G-Cat points so well that it appears to be sailing face on to the waves. It will hold this action as long as I need it to. I rake forward most of the time when I step. Neutral tiller load.

hobie say that square top sail is simply better all round

The square top sail is remarkable because it provides significant advantages in nearly all sailing conditions with practically no compromises. The most noticeable difference of the square top sail is the additional sail area up high. In light winds the benefit is simple. More sail area means more power, but contrary to what you might think the additional sail area actually makes the boat more forgiving in strong or gusty wind. Old school thinking would believe that the extra sail area up high would tend to tip the boat over easier, but in reality the extra sail area causes the sail to twist more and cause the top of the sail to flatten out. The net result is the center of lift of the sail moves down and the over all drive of the boat increases with less tendency to tip over. This is done automatically which makes the boat easier to sail in gusty wind.

The more subtle benefits are;

>> The improved planform of the sail. The most efficient wing or sail is one with an elliptical planform. The square top sail more closely approximates an ellipse.

http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/sail_bravo.html

wonder why they don't have them on the H16???

if i'm going to spend a $1000 it may as well be on a new sail as opposed to roller furling equip. or self tacking...

I agree, Square tops tend to be manageable. (off the wind in survival conditions I think you need to be careful of pitch poling because the top will twist, but maybe not enough (not sure I recall correctly). Just roller furling is not that expensive though. Why not do both? Self-tacking is another story of course, probably just as expensive as adding a spin.
Denns

I've got a self-tacking jib on my Nacra 5.8. The sail area is the same as the 5.8 original jib (longer luff, shorter foot).

In moderate to heavy air, the boat goes upwind slightly faster then it used to. In light air, it is slightly slower upwind. I'm pretty certain of this, as I've been racing against the same people for many years, and am able to judge my performance relative to them very well.

Off the wind the boat is a much slower without the kite.

I got a mast off of an Inter 17 with raked spreaders to replace the mast with straight spreaders on my 5.2. You would definitely have to cut/replace the overlapping jib. I hope to put a self-tacking jib on the newer mast and add a square-top main. I'm sure that I'll be wanting a spinnaker on it soon after, to improve my downwind speed.

I LOVED the square top I put on my H-17. I got a Pentex from Sabre that Bill Curry cut for me. In puffs the boat just MOVED!!! And as said, it was better in light air. Get one.

Doug

SC, GA, FL for three off the top of my head

Louisiana too. We so fast you only see us leaving!

Clayton

Um, it's more like 20 states which don't require both plates:

From Wikipedia:
"In the U.S. states of Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts (most plates issued prior to 1988 - see note below), Michigan, Mississippi, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, and West Virginia, license plates are only required on the rear of the vehicle. Some vanity and specialty plates in Arizona and Kansas are issued in pairs, but only the rear plate is required to be displayed; the optional front plate is something of a bonus for paying an extra fee for the plate.
Massachusetts is a unique case for license plate mounting. Before the introduction of the current "Spirit of America" base starting in 1986 for commercial vehicles and vanity plates and 1988 for all other vehicles, the state issued only a single green-on-white plate to be mounted on the rear bumper. With the current-issue base, two plates are issued, to be mounted on both the front and rear bumpers. Since all license plates issued since 1978 are currently valid, most passenger vehicles registered in Massachusetts display two plates, and those with the older green-on-white plates only display one."

There's someone thats never tried bearing off round the windward mark in a force on the H16 pinhead sail let alone a square top!

Boy am I getting old, and they keep on changing the rules .... when I was growing up there was only two states that had ONLY one license plate issued/vehicle. I knew this fact because I have always lived in Pennsylvania and was pulled over in another state for not having a front license plate. I believe now that alot of additional states now only issue a single license plate to help reduce costs. But looking at your list quickly I see Del, Georgia, and Florida listed .... I just drove through Del yesterday, most cars had both front and back plates. I have seen some Georgia and Florida tagged cars (on I95)recently and those cars had front plates also .... but I have recently noticed some Del cars w/ only a rear tag ... I thought they had lost their front tag. I like studying geography, so I like noticing which county they are from which to me seems odd to list .... if someone from "Philly" was in up-state Pa .... let's just say they are two completely different cultures ....

But front tags maybe coming back ... because of those "Photo-Radar Speed Traps" ... its hard to fight the speeding ticket w/ the proof being a pic of a car w/ a front license plate tag and your smiling face behind the steering wheel. It's hard to prove/convict w/ only a pic of the rear of a car w/ a license plate but no pic of the driver's face .... maybe I'll keep a "Gorilla Mask" in the truck ... no, a "Richard Nixon Mask" would be better!!!!

Harry

I have been living in FL for 14 years, there has been no front plate issued since i lived here.

What you may be seeing as "front plates" could actually be vanity plates which look like real license plates. F'rinstance I have an Aruba plate, it does appear genuine, says "WNSURF". It was a souvenir. I get asked about being from Aruba surprisingly frequently, so it seems to fool the hoi-polloi. I've seen Margaritaville plates which look like Florida plates. I see also people here in the land of expatriates quite frequently putting their native-state plates on the front of their cars. Although why anyone would brag on being a Yankee is beyond me. ;-)

Considering I have a TheMightyHobie18 AND a P19MX (Squaretop), I do have a little experience w/ this issue.

First, Do you understand the IHCA and HCA-NA's position on "One-Design" .... the only sail I can race my TheMightyHobie18 w/ is a horitontial paneled Dacron Pinhead sail .... that is a sail-design from the late 60's!!!!!! But they WILL NOT change it!!!!!

So that is one of the reasons I purchased the P19 in 1991 .... I wanted to race a boat w/ a newwer, better sail-plan ... and when Smythe designed in 1998-99 the MX sailplan for the P19 I purchased a set immediately ....

So what you are reading is a "marketing" editorial to sell you on purchasing a new Hobie Tiger/F18. Now while what they are saying is true, you will never see a squaretop on a H16/17/18 at any official "Hobie Points Regatta"... Because they would have to re-think and publicly change their "One-Design" philosophy. Please note that while there have been some "major" changes/upgrades to the H16 over the years (IMHO), most notable the re-designed front crossbar, the IHCA still claims it is operating a "One-Design" class. This is a "pet peeve" of mine as the TheMightyHobie18 and H17 have basically had no changes/upgrades since the day those models where first produced.

For example the three changes to the TheMightyHobie18 have been to allow pigtails for the jib, increased downhaul ratio from 3X to 6X and the use of a "over-rotation" system instead of a boom vang. That's it ... 30 years and only 3 changes ....

I would love to have a vertical cut, squaretop, constructed of Pentex mainsail .... of course I have a comptip so that limits the squaretop.

Harry

Why does a comptip limit the squaretop? Damon Linkous of thebeachcats.com has a squarehead main for his TheMightyHobie18 and I do believe he has a 'tip

http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?module=pictures&g2_itemId=31846

Hi Tami,

The "Comptip" mast is more flexible at the tip then a all-aluminum mast. Also you have the dis-continuity in the mast and you can snap the comptip off at that joint.

Most of us that have sailed the TheMightyHobie18 w/ both the comptip and all-aluminum mast feel/know the all-aluminum mast is a "faster" mast. (I do have a spare all-aluminum mast stored in the backyard and would LOVE to race with it) When the wind gets above 8-10knots the comptip flex off and starts to spill air through the mainsail's leach. Especially if you have enough wieght to hold the boat flat in +12knots of breeze.

Note that w/ my P19MX a puff will make you fly a hull ... a stiffer mast ... 8X1 mainsheet stack ... and Randy's design/construction w/ a leech that is almost impossible to "Hook" means I'm "standing" the leech up w/ alot of mainsheet tension ... generally I have to ease the mainsheet slightly (2-6")in a puff to twist off the squaretop.

Note: I was sailing the P19MX w/ my (then) 10yr old niece (the TheMightyHobie18 had been for years and was still in pieces behind the shed) .... we were double trapped on the first beat when we got hit w/ a big puff/microburst .... the P19MX was way up on one hull in a blink of an eye .... Megan was LAUNCHED (an I do mean launched!!!) head first into the mast ..... BOOOONNNNGGGG .... then bounced off into the jib .... how I saved the boat from flipping I still do not know I did it, but I was lucky I guess, because the boat should have flipped. So I dumped the mainsail completely and the boat settled back down ... I managed to grab Megan and hoist her onto the tramp. That was a September race and ended our season ... next year/spring I dug the TheMightyHobie18 out from behind the shed and re-assembled her ...

We had been talking about sailing w/ kids the night before w/ the race organizers .... when my boat leveled back down I had a mark/chase boat already beside me, hailing me to render assistence. The PRO/RC had seen us pop up and had watched Megan bounce off the mast .... and wasted no time in coming to our aid.

Megan's now 14yrs old .... and wants to race the P19MX this year ... tough kid. I love my P19MX but I will pick my P19MX days and venues w/ her carefully ....

Harry

By redesign of the front crossbar, I assume you're refering to the integrated traveler tracks. Hobie did the exact same thing with the 17 rear cross bar (and later front cross bar) by integrating those tracks. The 18 already has an integrated traveller track.

And each of the Hobies you mention (16, 17, & 18) have gone through changes to their respective hull lay-ups which have significantly altered the overall boat weights (either increase or decrease). Additionally, they have ALL had changes (minor & major) to the sail cuts since being introduced. So really, all of the boats have had major and minor changes throughout their 25 to 35 year existance...it's not just the 16.

Sorry to drag the thread so far off topic.

sm