Sounds like who has the big kahunas racing, or who dares wins. But reality is that people would resort to schoolyard bully tactics. Can you imagine returning to the beach after a collision in this type of racing and trying to mediate the protest let alone insurance claims?

On the open forum, no one leads, it is one complaint after another. The F16 class is forward thinking and adaptable. Who better to lead?

A major revision of the rules would be an enormous undertaking. Since we are smaller, there would be fewer voices, hence fewer distractions. If we came up with a viable product we could, at least, propose it to the multihull council. I am not at all certain that a rule set for monohull boats is best for multihulls anyway. Think of our closing speeds!

In the worst case, such a project would involve a thorough understanding of the rationale behind the current rules. For instance: In Gil's scenario, why can't he just tack! Currently, the answer is because the rules say so! What if the rule was changed to; Hail first, tack, and then expect the boat clear astern to drop off to leeward? IMO, this is much safer in that it removes the ambiguity because there is no question of room.

Further, I am convinced that this newer rule about right of way at a gate is going to get somebody hurt. Never mind about the obligation to know the rules. Even seasoned sailors somtimes confuse port and starboard.

Can you both take your little irrelevant war elsewhere? The F16 forum is again going to be branded as a fight club.

Time to invoke the first corollary of Godwin's law to finish that thread: Hitler.

Nooo. The original question concerned a re-write, not an explanation of the existing rules. You seem focused on the existing rule. I'm already confused by them and have abandoned them for the most part. My rule is to stay clear and stay out of trouble.

Nooo. The original question concerned a re-write, not an explanation of the existing rules. You seem focused on the existing rule. I'm already confused by them and have abandoned them for the most part. My rule is to stay clear and stay out of trouble. [/quote]

The rules are aimed at that, making boats stay clear and out of trouble. Having had at length discussions with match racing on-water judges who do the World Match Racing Tour and the AC, this is the intent and purpose of the rules.

"The rules are aimed at that, making boats stay clear and out of trouble. Having had at length discussions with match racing on-water judges who do the World Match Racing Tour and the AC, this is the intent and purpose of the rules."

It doesn't seem to be working. If it is, why all the questions?

Have you looked through the various online rules tutorials available? The UK Halsey one on Rolf's link is quite good, and BMW Oracle has a good one too (match racing focus, but still applies to fleet racing).

Done! Let us know how the "Let's reinvent the wheel" project turns out

Hitler! Now I said it as well

I am also looking forward to hearing the real-life results from Gurra when they have a go at this.
The rules are in my opinion way to complicated when you need books, case books, study books, tutorials and training to understand them and how they apply. Some is due to evolution and some is no doubt due to different vested interestes and politics.



If you say the RRS are the "wheel of sailing" today, I say a round wheel will be much better than a square one

A statement followed by a question. My tally says the vote is no.

Later.

I was wrong! The sun doesn't rise and set with Mr. Ingram, it rises and set with you. Or at least you seem to think so.

Lumping all of the RRS together and stating them as confusing is not an appropriate generalization. Most of the rules are straight forward and are needed because the sport is competitive, the boats are expensive and do not tolerate trading paint, and sailors can get hurt.

I believe there is a tendency to get hung up in the minutia of RRS' attempt to cover all possible circumstances and thus the complexity that is invoked.

The tacking question on the general forum is straight forward. If you cannot tack without impeding another boat on your “hip” and the other boat is not sailing beyond their layline (even though you may be at your layline) then tough luck. Racing is more than just a drag race around a course. There is technique, skill, and strategy.

I am an advocate for avoiding generalizations, stereotypes, absolutes, and phobias. So the other banter on this thread is boring, hurtful, and unproductive. Grow up!

"I am an advocate for avoiding generalizations, stereotypes, absolutes, and phobias. So the other banter on this thread is boring, hurtful, and unproductive. Grow up!"

Pete has anyone ever told you are a total a s s hole on the internet? In real life a total cool guy, that can take a few jokes. But sheeze brutha, seriously lay off the conflict online. No need for that not specially towards locals.

You love to ruffle the leaves on the trees, but you never pick up the mess you leave behind.

Re-writing the RRS seriously bro, you honestly think that will happen? The RRS have taken DECADES to build this is a huge task that posting it on a f16 catsailor forum just will NOT do it.

Sorry but you know me on a personal level, brutal honesty is my click.
You are a dick online.
This is going NO where.

See you on the race course and at the BBQ afterwords.

You never cease to amaze me!

See you Saturday.

Sorry but I wont be there, got other things going on. I will be there for the other May race.

Have fun and kick butt, if not, take down some times, Bob needs as much help as he can muster up.

2nded, they are ridiculously simple rules. ppl just need to think ahead a bit on the race course.

tangent - maybe ppl should participate in some match/team racing to get a better understanding of the rules.

I've got to agree with Matt on the rules thing. When I was younger, I read and memorized them, and as soon as I got all that in my head, they changed them...and they continue to change them every 3 years.

The point is, stay away from other boats, even if you KNOW you are in the right, if the guy coming at you fast on Port doesn't know, and hits you, you are out until the repairs are done and so what if you were correct? You are still out for the racing and out of pockett for the repair bills. I'd rather duck a stern now and then, than risk a hole in my boat. Stay the heck away from other boats, clear air is faster, concentrate on windshifts, not shitheads.

And Yes, I wish -everyone- knew the rules, inside and out, but they don't and never will, and as soon as you lean them they will change.

And they are open to -interpretations- and different view points. Who decides exactly where the 3 boat length circle is anyway? I never see that ring around the marks out there on the water...

Yeah, why the hostility towards Dave, Pete ?

I thought that was a bit uncalling for.

Wouter

I actually believe that Gurra Kranz rule is far too simple to be succesful while at the same time I believe a serious rewrite of the RRS could do wonders.

I've raced under a different set of rules while landyachting and they work out fine. Note that a collision there typically results in hospitalization.

To give one example. The guy coming from the right always has right of way unless both are on the same tack and the lee ward landyacht has rights. Just forget about where your sails are or on what tack you are.

Also removed any "proper sailing course / layline" restrictions ; they are impossible to enforce on the water without a referree boat.

I see potential to really simplify the rules for small racing boats where they big boats and AC boats just use the old set.

Wouter