Hey Harry,
I pretty much dive into everything at the most advanced level I can afford. The P-19 was what I raced after sailing with B.J. on the 16. Then I MXed it and added the 465 sq.ft. kite,then went to the 20.
"What's starting to annoy me is the attitude that if you are not sailing a $20,000 catamaran you are not worthy .... Last year I was severely cut-off on a leeward/windward crossing stuation when I was the right of way vessel ... but since I was a lowly TheMightyHobie18 and not the A-Cat I had no rights it seems. I had to "bail" radically, teabagging my niece. Next time I just may hold my course and cut that A-Cat in half w/ my TheMightyHobie18 or P19 that I need a tractor to drag around."
I get the opposite treatment on the 20 and the A, it's almost as if the Hobie 18s,17s and 16s on port are thinking "he'll get out of our way,'cause his boat cost more"Spring fever is a perfect example. That's BULLSH!T either way. Rules is rules.
I think you also missed the point. He was interested in WRSC and their 2 classes in cat right now are A-cat and N-20 with a growing F-16 class.
Todd

OK Harry, now I'm blushing...Put the tri back on her mooring at Pirate's Cove last Sunday. Rides always available to WRCRA members.
Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Could a lowly CRAC member get a ride sometime also???

Are you planning on competing in any of the CBYRA "Big Boat" regattas with that new Tri??? The Cruising Cats are a nice group of friendly people, and the competition is tight ... the F31's are tough to beat.

A group of us from CRAC/WRCRA/WRSC are crewing/sailing on "TripleThreat" (43' Corsair) and are having a good time. It would be nice to see you out on the water and at the after-race parties.


And Guys,

I apologize for being in a "pissie" mood yesterday ... but I do feel my comments are valid points. For a "Newbie", I believe a A-Cat or N20 for a first boat is problematic. We as a group are unique and specialized sailors ... and A-Cats and N20's are what I would call the "deep end of the pool" .... usually they don't recommend jumping straight away into the "deep end" .... but ... some people do ... and thrive!!!!

Harry

Kevin,
If you do decide to do any big boat racing on your tri, I'd love to crew for you. Just let me know. I'm sure there would be no shortage of folks to help race your boat.
I saw you coming into West River on Sunday after the regatta and she's a beautiful boat, great lines.
Todd

R,

"As Chris was leaving last Saturday, he introduced me to another Nacra sailor, who suggested I get on their crew e-mail list. Is there a Nacra-specific distribution list? If so, how can I get on there to see if anybody can use last-minute crew for Tuesday evening cat sailing?"

This "Chris" you speak of, was that me or one of the other 4 or so Chris or Kris-es at our club? If you want on the N20 email list then PM me and I will add you to the list. The Tuesday night racing email list is controlled by Keith, PM him.

"Looking at the rules for joining WRSC, to become a full-fledged member you have to own, outright or as a share, one of the OD fleets that are part of the club. Do I understand that correctly? But during one of the rare breaks on the RC boat, Peter mentioned that there were other options for boat-less membership. So I'll have to investigate that as well."

You don't have to own to be a full voting member, we will take all the money you want to give us. There are cheaper way to join. Once you PM me I'll give you my tele number and I will walk you thru the options.

"partnership"

Perhaps a better word is co-owning. This can be a very good way of getting the most out of your money. You should have an agreement, this doesn't have to be difficult to do, "the Yachtsmen Guide to Co-Ownership" has a sample agreement that could be used probably verbatim. I've co-owned and can tell you the good the bad and the potential ugly of it. We have some examples of co-ownership within our N20 fleet that seem to be working out really well.

When are you leaving? How many kids do you have? The whole Hi-tech thingy isn’t the argument for me. Its more important what mother nature is doing than how advanced or “Hi-tech” the boat is. Its about Power management. In my opinion, a higher-tech boat will be easier to manage power. We are not blowing thru sails even on a yearly basis.

An aside about the one day that I decided to NOT take my kids out on the N20 last year: Sunny, really warm, club packed with people and families, great day to show all these half boaters what a full boat can do, right? I stood by the launch ramp with my then 6 and 8 year old both fully stoked about it just being the three of us goin’ out on Gerite. I stood there for probably ten minutes, looking at the water and wind with sweat just running of me. To my kids disappoint, I declared we were going kayaking instead. My 8 year old son, who, lets say speaks his mind, pretty much called me out as being a big pussy. He stomps off with my 6 year old in tow to go and get the kayak paddles. Enter laser guy. Nice enough guy on the whole, he has his family there and is just amazed with my decision to not sail. Apparently, amazed enough to actually question my decision, with “are you kidding me, this has to be the greatest day for sailing I’ve seen on the bay.” I tried to explain to him that I actually like my kids and wasn’t going to scare them. I was significantly lacking crew weight and crew experience for those conditions and that although my boat is easy to depower the wind was simple blowing to hard. Even if I had another adult with me we wouldn’t have gone. That was not the conditions to be taking a N20, Blade or probably even a hobie 18 with kids on it out sailing. Race in it, you bet! Go yahoo sailing with experienced crew sure, but not with kids. He questioned me again about disappointing my kids, blah blah blah…. This was becoming a scene…I ended up cutting him off with I’ll ask for your opinion next time I desire it kind of statement. As were shoving off …now his wife is offended and tries to come to her husbands aid, blah blah blah… I think perhaps I was to direct but I asked her if she had ever been around the forestay? In there ensuing confusion, we had a great time kayaking, we went down wind seldom paddling then I ended up towing them both back; that was great exercise. We get back to the beach and there is laser guy trying to straighten his mast at one of the picnic tables. Me boy started to question him, and I stopped him, leave him alone he is gaining experience.

Chris,

Your post so eliquently makes the point that I was unable to make. When I was racing down at Solomons Island on my P19MX w/ Megan who was 10yrs old at the time, I realized how poor of a decision I had made that day when Megan BOUNCED headfirst off of the mast, with a loud, frightening, and scary BONNNNNNG and went spinning off into the jib still on the wire.... when a "Microburst" hit us.

To say my heart skipped a beat is an understatement, it skipped several I believe. But what was worse, was the guilt I felt afterwards. Now Megan wanted to sail the very next weekend and laughs now about bouncing off the mast.

So while I get GREAT pleasure sailing my P19MX ... I realized that I get even greater pleasure sailing w/ my niece, watching her learn, improve and grow. So I had a decision to make .... hence the pieces of my TheMightyHobie18 where gathered up from their various storage locations around the house/garage/shed and re-assembled. And we have been having alot of fun on my ol'TheMightyHobie18 .... but Megan is aggitating to race the P19MX this year ..... along w/ the TheMightyHobie18. And she now has a Laser (which we share, she sails it and I pay the bills ....)

Now I believe the F16 is a excellent selection for a young and growing family. Highly flexible sailplan so that the whole family can sail using the various configurations. And when I saw "Lucky Duck"/Ed and John McLaughlin yesterday at "Gunpowder" I gently needled them on when they would have a Fleet of F16's at WRSC. I hope that happens soon ....

And Chris ... you demostrated one of the most important qualities of being a skipper/captain. You analyzed the situation, made a decision and STUCK to it.

Harry Murphey

Ain't that the truth

Wouter

I agree Chris,Common sense is a good thing.
Your boy IS right though.
Tawd

Harry, I wasn't trying to make your point. Megan bouncing off your mast could happen on the Hobie 18 as well.

F16 thingy...yeah I like the f16s, and there to small for me.

Todd, Nice! Thats more like it.

Harry. I've done two Statue races on the A Cat so Bite Me!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (still laughing).

Harry,

I hadn't been back here in awhile. That was a near Sailing Anarchy level of "your full of it" reply that I cannot completely ignore. I realize the issue has been largely put to bed by others in my absence, but after brief and careless consideration have decided to engage the discussion.

I think your basic premise that high tech automatically means high maintenance, difficult to sail or frail is.... to put it most directly, wrong. If this were the case wouldn't we all still be sailing monohulls made of timber with square sails?

Adding technology to a boat can have numerous impacts, including ease of use and improved durability as well as performance. Yes, I know Acats are light and focused on performance, but besides being capable of sailing well in a wide range of breeze, the "high tech" lets me pull it up the beach when I'm tired and right it quickly when I need too (such as before drifting into the Pirates Cove Marina fairway after a showboating/hull flying failure).

Other than a carbon mast that failed due to a stainless bolt coming loose I have not had anything fail or wear out on an ACat that I wouldn't expect to wear out on any cat/boat (tramp lacing, trap lines, a single block on the mainsheet). Today we have two sanctioned and one budding fleet of cats at WRSC. The N20 does a great job for double handed racing in almost any condition and will do duty as a family cruiser on the river. The Acat is (IMHO) simply the most fun you can have racing a single handed boat of any kind. Ed and his F16 cohorts have found a boat that offers some aspects of both.

I don't think you meant to sound like a close minded establishment monohull sailor, but you sorta did.

Roland. It was great to met you Saturday at Gunpowder. I hope you don't think we're evil with the tone we take on some of our posts. It's all in fun and there's really much love. In fact just the other day Chris was walking hand in hand with an A Catter. It was a majic moment. Ed

Are you sure he wasn't just handing the A-catter a check to repair his boat. Gertie seems to have an appetite for A-cats.
Tawd

P.s. Ed you suck too. Frickin' Turncoat.

Harry and Todd: Thanks for the comments. While I haven't sailed cats actively in several years, I hope that my experience sailing cats growing up, and racing 420s in college, would take me somewhat beyond "newbie" status.

If I wasn't relocating overseas this summer, I would seriously consider an A-cat. Although I'm sure I would end up at the very back of the pack, I'm also confident that it would be a blast. Last time I sailed a Hobie 18 was an incredible experience. Rented an TheMightyHobie18 with wings from an outfit in Hyeres, France, with a girl from my high school during summer, a few weeks before graduation. Even though she had cruising experience, it was tougher than we expected sailing up the coast and camping on beaches. But the memories are priceless (see my avatar picture).

Kevin: That new tri sounds quite exciting. Thanks for the offer of a ride. Not sure I'm ready to acquire my own cat quite yet. Will get in touch if I decide it's a reasonable option to go that way.



Yup, I'm pretty sure it was you, Chris (Allen). PM sent. (I noted from the board at WRSC that your e-mail is your sail number, but couldn't remember the domain.) Not sure I have the contact for Kris, but we can figure that via PM.



Thanks for the kind offer. Would love to take you up on both the e-mail list(s) and help on joining WRSC. Thanks also for your thoughts on co-owning. I think that would be a good option for my purposes medium- to long-term. Short-term the goal is to get on the water as crew, and the list(s) will hopefully help with that.



We expect to leave in early August, so there's a little more than three months left. Two kids, boy is 7 months and daughter is 3.5 years. While I would consider taking the girl for a ride on a cat with an extra set of hands to help on a slow day close to shore, both are obviously too young to sail on a regular basis right now, and will be for some time. So the decision at this stage is more about me than the kids.

With that said, I'm sure I would appreciate and enjoy learning to sail a "high tech" boat. When I last sailed that Hobie 18 (see above), I remember it was heavy to handle. And I was in better shape then... So anything that is lighter to handle is a plus in my book.

-Roland E.

Thanks for the tip about RHYC, Harry. I noticed the event on the Hobie Div 11/Fleet 54 website. For a home club, I'm hoping for something on the West side of the Bay, so as to avoid bridge traffic. But Down the River and the Annual OD Regatta sound great. I may be traveling in Europe for work that week, but if not, will try to make it out.



Ed, now you've got me confused. I wasn't able to make it to Gunpowder, unfortunately. Were you at WRSC Spring Regatta too and we met there? I have to admit I'm getting somewhat mixed up between everybody's screen names and real names. Lots of new faces in a short period of time, and I'm terrible with names.

I certainly don't mind the comments. Passion for something (i.e. a boat) you believe in is healthy. And as Mike F alluded to above, Catsailor is quite mild compared to Sailing Anarchy, even though that place serves a very useful purpose as well.

And, awesome that you've done to Statue of Liberty races on an A-cat. Having lived in NYC for some years, that would have to be the coolest regatta, on a cool boat to boot. Will have to put that on my "to do" list for when I get back Stateside in 2012. (Yikes, that's far out!)

Ed,

I hadn't heard that you started and completed the "Statue" on a "A-Cat" not once but twice .... thats 36 miles (on the rumbline) each time on what can be some of the roughest sailing around.

I stand corrected and humbled by your achievement ... will you allow me to buy you some beverages and dinner when you visit RHYC in June????


Herbie53

Please read that second sentence in your first post carefully .... I've owned a TheMightyHobie18 since 1985 .... and WHAT did you compare my boat to ???? You flicked my "Irish" switch .....

I should have ignored it but ... I am Irish!!!!

Next, a set of new sails(from the Hobie Factory) cost $1300-$1400 currently .... the price set of sails for my P19MX currently (from recent quotes) $2200-$2500. And that doesn't include the spinnacker .... should we add another $1200-$1500 ??? Both sets last about the same length of time w/ the TheMightyHobie18 Dacron jib lasting just slightly longer then the P19MX Pentex jib. (The Pentex doesn't seem to like "flogging" and can start to de-laminate if "flogged" for any amount of time.)

I was also trying to point out to Roland (gently) that he may want to consider a "more child proof boat" let's say .... what would happen if some kids wanted to "Play" on an A-Cat ... you know climb all over, jumping up and down on the tramp ... let alone go for a ride .... can you take two people out on an A-Cat????? Even if one is small as a child????

It's been my observation (from watching my bud's getting married and starting families)... if the whole family can not participate in an activity, the family will fined and change to an activity that will allow them to participate together.

And then I don't know how many times I've seen the scenerio of someone buying "Too Much" boat and getting caught out on a breezy/windy day and coming back in w/ the "Sh_t Scared Out of Them" ..... I saw that alot w/ the female/male teams on the Hobie 20 (Miracle) when they first came out. A couple of my friends did that to their wives and that was it .... done!!!

And in closing ... high tech is not a Monohull vs Multihull issue. There are Hi-Tech multi's and also Mono's just as there are low tech Multi's and Mono's. What do you think it costs to campaign a Melges 24, a "J" boat or a Star boat??? If you discount my sailing sunfishs and frostbiting Lasers, I've been on one monohull sailboat (an Island Packet) and I couldn't get used to the boat heeling over 45* ... my beer kept on spilling. So just because I'm promoting selecting a meduim-tech boat doesn't make me a "MONOHULLER"!!!!!

Now when you come over to RHYC in June, I'll buy you a beer, or several and we'll have a good laugh about this ...

HarryMurphey

Ok so who's the guy from South Africa that I met at Gunpowder? I assumed it was you Roland because of the Africat handle. I'm old but I hope I'm not halucinating yet!! But then again, how would I know?

Ed

Harry,

I wasn't trying to flick your Irish with the TheMightyHobie18 comment, but I was doing nothing more and nothing less with the monohuller comparison.

I really have nothing against monohulls... campaigning a M24 on the cheap is about $4k per season, doing it right is about $10k (x any travel regattas), a set of sails is around $6k and if you want to sail in the top half you'll need them at least every other year... it takes 4 crew + helm that are willing to commit to sailing together season after season.

No where was I implying or saying that an ACat is a family daysailor, it's not. It isn't intended to carry the weight, the boom is too low, and the platform is narrow. What I will say is that it is the most fun you can have on a sailboat by yourself (or with your imaginary crew).

I think the real discussion is whether someone new to cat sailing (particulars of interest aside) is better off starting on an older, less expensive boat or just jumping into something a bit more current. For me buying as much of the lastest "technology" as I could afford made and makes sense. My first cat was an I20 and while it could be a bit sporty at times the modern sail plan, carbon mast, forgiving hull shape and well laid out sail controls were all big pluses.

I think the capper for Roland is that WRSC offers a pretty good OD sailing scene for the three boats mentioned above as well as a great place to bring the kids and just hang out (or heaven forbid, sail a monohull -- like one of the club optis or 420s).

"Are you sure he wasn't just handing the A-catter a check to repair his boat. Gertie seems to have an appetite for A-cats."

Gertie's getting hungry, one whole regatta and no munch, munch. Better bring your real boat next time you come up here, wouldn't want to classify you as a LALB sailor!

BTW, thanks for the laugh, I'm in f'in Lansing MI, somebody please shoot me!

That's funny, Ed. I've been wondering how people were going to interpret my handle.

Not sure who the guy from South Africa was. While I've been to South Africa before, I'm definitely not from there. And I wasn't at Gunpowder. I chose my handle because I'm about to relocate to Africa in August, and hope to sail cats a lot while over there. West Africa in my case.